As someone who used to use arch for years, I can’t stand its users who go around acting like running it is some herculean task that takes serious knowledge.
In reality its not much more than a misbehaved pet that requires constant attention and a blog post to be read every month or so. Not because its hard, but because its updates are just kinda slapped together and tossed out in the name of speed.
One of the biggest indicators of this is the AUR. For what it was worth, the Gentoo crowd it replaced at least knew how to compile a program.
Maybe learn to use git, tar, and make like literally anyone else on any other fucking distro.
The answer for this guy and other people stretched by supporting Linux is to say it’s flatpak or nothing. Stop trying to build for each dist because it’s not sustainable. If someone on a dist wants to maintain a package then let them take the heat if it is broken.
I see a few top level comments agreeing with the sentiment that users are being entitled or abusive, but what are they actually referring to? The linked image certainly has no evidence of such behavior. Someone who claims to be the developer filed a deletion request for the duckstation-git AUR package on the AUR and they say:
Every time, it turns into abuse towards me, as you can also see in the comments for the package.
I read through a few pages of the comments here and they’re mostly people talking about fixing issues with the package, and what to do about the dev purposely breaking the build… I only found a single message that could be called abuse:
@eugene, not really but i suspect it’s an uphill battle, check the commit message: https://github.com/stenzek/duckstation/commit/30df16cc767297c544e1311a3de4d10da30fe00c
FWIW, I’m moving to pcsx-redux, I rather run a little bit less advanced PSX emulator than software by this upstream asshat. Regardless, much thanks for maintaining the AUR package so far.
And even this is not a good example of what stenzek is describing. For one, it’s obviously a reaction to stenzek’s hostile changes and not the sort of user coming for support and being abusive that stenzek is talking about. The user is also explicitly moving to a different emulator and not expecting any change from duckstation.
Refuse to build in Arch package environments. My license does not allow for packages
but it’s not a package. On arch it downloads the source from his own git and it compiles it on the end user machine. He is a dev and doesn’t know that? Or just pretending?
AUR is just (automated) instructions on how to compile (except -bin, in that case it’s packaged)
A previous commit of the readme even said:
Linux users are encouraged to build from source when possible
yes, good luck building from source without documentation on what libraries do you need
Their right to do so, but the comment sounds like a whiny bitch.
Linux pros: FOSS, free, private, secure, etc.
Linux cons: Linux users
Dev here who also happens to support Linux, and while Linux has its own challenges (whoever came up with the libevdev API, should not allowed to come up with any other API’s), I think it’s good to support Linux natively regardless. GNOME devs however should stop forcing their UX ideas onto others sometimes even outside of Linux. One of them when I was asking about how to I make the Alt key on Windows to stop it trying to open the nonexistent menu bar, then they told me to “just add one”. I’m developing games, not just desktop apps, where the alt key isn’t expected to open a menu bar. I then got told that it’s “expected behavior” (Hungarian here, I’d like to expect that both alt keys are for accessing a second set of gliphs, and one of them isn’t a dedicated “menu key”), and that games like Unreal Tournament “did it already” (that one used the escape key for menus).
One of them when I was asking about how to I make the Alt key on Windows to stop it trying to open the nonexistent menu bar, then they told me to “just add one”.
FYI - if you haven’t figured this out already (and useful info for other Win32 devs), simply block WM_SYSCOMMAND in your WndProc of your app if the pressed key is SC_KEYMENU.
I’ve done this for a game mod I’m developing (it didn’t have windowed mode originally) and I specifically blocked it only during active gameplay. Otherwise (e.g. during menus) it can be pretty useful to keep active.
The gnome team is worse then apple and Microsoft.
At least they own the entire OS they force their changes on.
The gnome team just fucks with everyone everywhere and gives zero fucks otherwise.
GNOME devs however should stop forcing their UX ideas onto others
And then break them with every major release
Interesting. The only thing i knew is: the escape key is really important for Unreal Tournament.
The original Unreal Tournament (or UT’99, or whatever) is also one of the very few modern-ish full screen games that had a drop down menu bar like you’d expect on a typical Windows application. The other one I can think of off the top of my head is ZSNES, although in that case they rolled their own solution. Not least of which because the original ZSNES was a DOS program (with huge chunks of it written in x86 assembly!) so they kind of didn’t have a choice.
If I remember right UT’99 actually did use Windows style accelerator keys in its menus, i.e. hold down Alt and press a letter to perform an action, which might just make all this malarkey peripherally relevant.
Since it’s an open source project, it’s pretty easy to make a fork and readd Linux support.
Valid points but the maintainer comes off as deranged.
No, Maintainer comes off as pissed off for dealing with a lot of headaches created by others creating a version he doesnt support, and doesnt want, yet is dealing with all the backlash and headache of.
and to try to stem the tied, he created a package just for those people… and they refuse to use it, continuing to use the broken version, and bombarding him with headaches over something that he, again, does not control.
Only liars would say they wouldnt be pissed off dealing with such a situation.
While I understand and respect his feeling, in my limited experience, people that don’t like when distributions package their software are often deranged.
Still, if you are using OS packages, your first stop should be OS fora / bug trackers, not upstream. Whoever is producing the distro/OS packages should engage with upstream if and when that’s necessary. Upstream, especially small upstreams, really shouldn’t be expected to deal with the craziness of Nix, Arch, Debian, and SteamOS all at the same time.
Users are, IME, mostly annoying. Sometimes (not often) I’m glad none of my software has any. At least at work I can point at the Teams / Slack / Jira conversation to prove they specifically asked for something completely different last week and I implemented that.
If I give something for free, it’s my rules. Simple as that. Don’t like it? don’t accept it.
Linus is often a dick. He even acknowledges it. Don’t like it? Well, there are other OS.
I’m not like that, I like being helpful, I actually do many volunteer hours a week, but… I do hate entitlement. I don’t see these people giving Microsoft as hard a time.
Lets keep the Karen constrained, please.
Linus is an ass, but he also doesn’t make problems for other people then blame them for those problems he made himself.
Like this dev is doing. It’s not remotely the same situation.
This guy is fucking with his users, then telling them to fuck off and then bitching people don’t respect him or follow his rules.
While denying he is fucking with people and trying to claim he’s being harassed.
That’s /not/ how that works. It’s your project your rules. But you also can’t be a fuckwad and deny it. While expecting anyone to respect you or what you say.
Yeah but you also don’t get to be upset if someone calls you unpleasant. Both things can be true.
He’s upset because people are bothering him for packages that are out of his control. A similar thing happened recently with OBS where a distro was packaging it in a non-standard way, iirc.
Nah man I maintain a few decently sized packages on github and refusing support etc is perfectly normal but generally you don’t go on this toxic rant and just say “nah man I can’t afford to maintain this” which is very well accepted.
They’re not being bothered. They are a sensible asshole. Nothing wrong with that, and they are free to express their truth of how they feel. But there’s no evidence of harassment, if they think bug reports and feature requests is abuse then they are in for a rude experience if someone is stupid enough to actually harass them.
They should just take their project proprietary anyways. The license used is a joke. Duckstation is not open source, the license is so restrictive that it is barely source available. They are not ideologically, or in practice, part of the FOSS community. So they’re free to take their toy home with them. They weren’t playing nice with others anyway.
If you don’t want to see your software packaged in ways outside of your control, is it smart to publish it with a license that allows it to be packaged in ways outside of your control?
~11 months ago they relicensed from GPL 3 to CC BY-NC-ND.
Oh. Time for a fork. -ND variants are not Free Software / Open Source.
this developer is a big prick. i had an issue (that turned out to be user error after getting help from another source) with the android version of duckstation so went to their discord for support. instead of offering any aid or insight, i was immediately stereotyped as “an android user” and told “we don’t offer tech support for android” basically for no other reason than “because android users bitch too much and then give you a bad review,” which is just kind of insane imo? there’s no downside to bad reviews like you’re not going to get delisted? anyways, completely not surprised to hear this from that ass. it genuinely seems like this guy hates developing duckstation at all and i am confused why he bothers. give it up man, sounds like you’ll be happier
Sounds like hes just tired of dealing with idiots.
Which I can sympathise with.
Sounds like someone who uses Windows and is annoyed that anyone else uses anything other than Windows.
I dunno about anyone else, but that’s a giant red flag for me when it comes to software devs
Eh, I use Linux and am annoyed at issues from users on other systems. I don’t know Windows dev very well, so fixing issues on Windows is a pain for me. Likewise for macOS.
So I get it.
That said, the proper way to handle this is to make it explicit what platforms are supported and which are not, accept fixes for unsupported platforms that don’t break supported platforms, close issues related to packaging and whatnot on other platforms, and leave open and ignore issues for unsupported platforms. Let the community support what they want, and focus on what you want.
I mean, he’s not wrong, plenty of pre-release games allow you to download before it’s out, then android users go and give it 1 star because the servers aren’t open yet.
instead of offering any aid or insight, i was immediately stereotyped as “an android user” and told “we don’t offer tech support for android” basically for no other reason than “because android users bitch too much and then give you a bad review,”
This sounds like there were several users berating you, not (just) the developer?
It’s a tricky one. You can’t ban every user from your Discord just for being condescending.
The developer also had a massive drama with RetroArch because, wait for it… “RetroArch users complain too much!” so that’s actually a common sentiment coming from them and it’s absolutely not restricted to Linux. He hates Linux users, Android users, RetroArch users… at this point I wonder why even publish this as a public user facing project at all, he clearly hates users.
In his defense, a LOT of emulator maintainers have this sentiment about RetroArch, so I can’t fault him too much for that one in particular.
I do get the sense this is more common with emulators in general.
In his defense, a LOT of emulator maintainers have this sentiment about RetroArch, so I can’t fault him too much for that one in particular.
Then release your emulator as a paid app for iOS with a closed source and go nuts. Otherwise it’s like going out naked during a rainy day and shouting you’re getting wet.
I’ve seen this, some server Admins and mods actually encourage the behavior via modeling. They do it once and that gives permission to the other users to act similarly. Becoming a cultural problem with the whole server. Then they don’t ever correct or moderate the behavior, further encouraging it.
“I don’t want to get bad reviews so I’m going to be a massive dick to my users”
Can you help me underatand where you proved him wrong?
Who said he was wrong? He basically guaranteed that android users will respond that way by refusing to support them, thus ensuring he will always be right about them
He’s not obligated to provide that support. But the tone sure makes it seem expected.
He’s not obligated to provide support but there are infinitely many ways for decline providing support without insulting someone for being an Android user, and insulting Android users in general, at the same time, literally the moment when someone sought for support.
Especially when Discord is not even inherently a support platform to begin with, Discord is a fricking instant massaging platform, this is fundamentally no different from insulting a stranger on the street the moment they started a conversation, with the most BS insult ever.
Too many FOSS users are toxicly entitled… It ruins things for everyone.
It’s more than just FOSS users. It’s “The Internet” in general. At least two of the modding scenes I’ve been in have had multiple developers (and artists and translators) just quit due to their users aggressively complaining about the stuff they give away for free.
Of course, it doesn’t get that much better when people have to pay for things – ask customer service representatives how much toxicity they see from unsatisfied customers.
Too many FOSS devs are toxically entitled… It ruins things for everyone.
Remember developers are also users and all users suck.
This guy’s an a****** and is complaining when people treat him like an a****** he has no need to share his project if he’s free to keep it to himself. But if you go stand on a public Street, share something for free and then b**** at everybody who comes up to you. You’re the problem, not the user
It isn’t toxic* entitlement to seek tech support on the platform the developer offers tech support on.
Edit: added “toxic” for clarification
Why wouldn’t I be entitled to tech support if they’re offering tech support?
No, but carrying the grudge this long and vocally leaves me to wonder if the story is as crisp as put forth.
And FOSS die hards put many people off of lemmy early on.
Seek? Yes. Expect? No.
What are they entitled to? And how is it toxic?
No, but the app will inevitably have bad reviews on Android because it will not be as good - both technically and in terms of “customer service”.
FOSS can’t usually compete with big tech in this area and it is one of the biggest drawbacks to FOSS in general. You are on your own.
it genuinely seems like this guy hates developing duckstation at all.
I don’t think you get it. He probably enjoys creating, and achieving something awesome. He has no obligation to deal with entitled users of what he gives away
You mean “self-entitled”. “Entitled” means that you actually are owed something. It’s like the difference between righteous and self-righteous.
Then he really shouldn’t have a discord server where he offers tech support.
It’s one thing to not give anyone lemonade, you’re never obligated to do that for no reason, however it’s another thing to set up a free lemonade stand and tell whoever tries to get lemonade that they’re annoying and to go away.
If he only wants to create something and not deal with any user issues, he could just do that. Going out of his way to tell users to fuck off is extra work he could just not do and everyone would be happier
Let me add to context:
This developer hates the FOSS spirit & tells users to fuck off when they complain. There, done.
itt: a bunch of entitled Linux youths that don’t understand burnout or QOL.
dude has set a limit to what he wants or is willing to do. still gets called a bitch for defining the line and is still called an asshole.
some of y’all even bring up multiple cases of other foss devs doing/saying the same thing, continue to call them assholes.
🤔 There’s a pattern here…but I’m just too blinded by the brilliancy of my distro to see it…
You might want to look up the meaning of the word “entitled”.
youths
y’all
Reddit
Defending a dick head dev they know nothing about or their history and insulting end users under false assumption. Overly self righteous.
Yep, reddit as fuck.
The problem has originated because he changed the license resulting in older versions being the only way to ship duckstation.
Edit: lisence to license
I wonder if he received permission from all the other contributors to change the license of their contributions.
Notice how the developer argues he forbids packages and how the AIR is in violation of this? But an AUR PKGBUILD is not a package - it’s build instructions. It doesn’t distribute or package anything, you can check it yourself. It’s not called “PKG” for a reason. He misunderstands his own license and believes the allegedly broken PKGBUILD violates it.
He may be right about some users annoying him with bug reports though I’d be surprised if it was that common. It seems like he got a couple of reports, noticed the “forbidden” PKGBUILD and then reacted like this. Just like when changing the license from GPL to CC-BY-NC-ND in order to combat… GPL violations and trademark infringements?
Frankly, the project has not had parricularly stable leadership in a while. Though a bit unfair of a comparison, compare it to Dolphin and you can see a night and day difference in project management.
Ironic that a guy who facilitates large amounts of piracy is complaining about violating license agreements.
If someone wanted to maintain the PKGBUILD for this project, it’d be trivial to include a patch that removes the code he added trying to make it not build.
Or, to make sure to not be in breach of the no-derivatives part of his lisence, just reimplement it and ship with a patch that fixes his “blocker”.
TIL dolphin can emulate psx.
Seriously, this thread is honestly vile and these people are a perfect example as to why this is happening.
How they are this blind to their own toxicity is beyond me
I haven’t read anything VILE here. It’s happening because he’s both controlling and implicitly bad at maintaining said control. Had he not insisted on trying to control packages he would have had a working package like every other software project in the ecosystem that is properly maintained for free by other people’s labor.
deleted by creator
it’s honestly why I don’t open source any of my projects.
like, I want to make the world a better place but at the same time it cannot cost me my QOL because some entitled punk thinks they can demand shit from me.
I don’t think you have any projects anyone would use. If you did you could ust tell the imaginary entitled punk you don’t have time.
You don’t have time to tell them all you don’t have time.
Removed by mod
People just expect open source devs that do this shit in their free time with absolutely no compensation to bend over for them and do everything they please. The good thing about open source development is that you can just help with the development yourself.
Normally you’d be right, but in this case the guy just actually does have a history of being an a****** to everybody. This is very much a case of a developer being the problem.
He has a history of starting s*** being an a****** and then complaining when everyone else is an a****** to him.
That’s not even getting into. Basically every problem he is complaining about is of his own making or his own ignorance.
The whole aur problem is because of his own, very likely illegal license change
You know, you don’t need to censor yourself on here. I don’t think anybody’s going to be offended if you just write “shit” or “asshole”.
I thought they said ahunter2.
Yes, but no one can help this one developer because they changed the license. So now the project is just source available, not open source. They chose to be alone.
I’d go further, you should help with the development. Seems like some people would rather spend hours hounding a developer to implement their thing, rather than figuring out how to do it themselves…
He changed the license so no one can legally help him. He kind of put himself in this position. And very likely did so illegally
OK I didn’t know that, stupid move on his part then… What do you mean by likely illegally?
Not a license expert but he changed the license to a more restricted one but did not ask contributors which the previous license may have required.
Except the Duckstation developer changed the license to where they don’t accept contributions from others, so we couldn’t help even if we wanted to.
G*mers are entitled pieces of shit.
Linux users are arrogant hipster assholes.
It’s a perfect storm for creating just the worst people ever. And that’s before we add the weird belittlement open source devs get.
I just cannot wrap my head around an emulator dev who isn’t daily driving Linux…
Damn people are really misunderstanding this comment. Legitimately just don’t know anyone who is involved in FOSS projects who doesn’t primarily use Linux. Not really passing judgement here, just making an observation.
I’m passing judgement. He’s a weirdo
I’m all for jerking around on Windows folks to use Linux in jest and fun, but to purposely shit on a major contributor of any foss for not using Linux makes my blood boil.
honestly, I hope the dev reads this and takes my advice.
as a Linux guy, run dude. fuck these assholes. they don’t deserve your time, your talent, or your efforts. gank your shit, rewrite the license, and block any Linux use. and make sure you call out the distro(s) responsible. sometimes assholes have to be put in their place to learn anything. even then, if history tells us anything they’re just going to go poison some other poor dev and forget about you.
The original code was GPL which he illegally re-licensed to creative commons.
If you are the copyright owner you can relicense any way you want learn some copyright law.
right but unless you sign a contributor licensing agreement when you contribute then the copyright owner can’t relicense code you contributed.
so if you contribute to a GPL codebase it’s pretty legally perilous to try to unilaterally relicense code that isn’t “yours”.
this is pretty nebulous territory anyways, but I’d argue it’s pretty unethical to relicense to a more restrictive license essentially “taking” the GPL code from contributors
This is true, but it’s also true that the older gpl versions can’t be revoked.
Well yes and no you can release them going forward under a new licence. If you obtained your copy under the old license you can use it under the old license when you obtain a new copy you have a new license agreement. Thats absolutly possible to do. Revoking licenses is alot harder though and changing the lizens from a foss on to another is often confusing and business inapropiate. However it is legal.
yes you can!
…for new versions. not for already released ones.
at least not with most common copyleft/open source licenses.
edit: assuming a solo project. see below.
Only if you are the sole contributor or get a written consent from all contributors. GPL doesn’t hand over the copyright to the maintainer.
Dolphin is the poster child example of changing licences properly. It was a painful job just getting in touch with all the long inactive devs.
yes, correct, assuming a solo project!
thank you for the correction.
Well yes and no you can release them going forward under a new licence. If you obtained your copy under the old license you can use it under the old license when you obtain a new copy you have a new license agreement. Thats absolutly possible to do.
Revoking licenses is alot harder though and changing the lizens from a foss on to another is often confusing and business inapropiate. However it is legal.
Edit: A license is for not vopyright owners not the copyright holder. The copyright holder can basically do whatever they want.
yes and no:
the copyright owner can do whatever they want, but they can’t really revoke a GPL license. that’s not really a thing.
and the part about
If you obtained your copy under the old license you can use it under the old license when you obtain a new copy you have a new license agreement.
seems to me like you are implying that “use under the old license” means “run the program on my own machine”, but that’s not true, since GPL explicitly allows redistribution and modification.
under a GPL license, you effectively give up control over your software voluntarily:
The GNU General Public Licenses are a series of widely used free software licenses, or copyleft licenses, that guarantee end users the freedom to run, study, share, or modify the software.
(highlighted the relevant portion for your convenience)
this makes revoking the license effectively impossible.
you could continue development under a different license, but that gets legally tricky very quickly.
for example: all the code previously under GPL, stays under GPL. so if someone where to modify those parts of the code and redistribute it as a patch, you couldn’t legally do anything about that.
which seems to be what the OOP claims the change to a CC-BY-NC-ND forbids, apparently misunderstanding, that this new license only applies to code added to the repo since the license change, not the code from before the license change.
fair enough, but that doesn’t mean he has to do everything anyone asks him. he’s still within his rights to close the source down and obliterate it from the internet. others will come and pick up the torch.
And likewise, that doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to give him shit for doing it.
Not really sure how you read my comment as “shitting” on anyone. I’m just commenting that it’s unexpected and unusual for a FOSS dev to not be Linux user. Idc what they do, just making the observation as someone involved in the FOSS space that most of my peers are more likely to shit on windows than Linux.
you didn’t make an observation. you made a statement. you stated that it’s impossible to fathom why anyone doing foss would continue using Windows over Linux.
it’s not impossible, you just choose to disregard their personal preferences.
“It’s impossible” is often used not to literally describe a logically impossible event but instead as an exaggeration. “I can’t possibly fathom why” is also not literal, it means under regular circumstances.
I cannot imagine why anyone would prefer grass that cuts your skin over regular grassmeans for typical people using grass in typical garden/field situations. That could be someone’s person preference but that it’s not typical, it’s unexpected.
Just open source it and leave it to the Linux community.
I understand not wanting to support something you don’t use yourself.
He chooses to do direct support over discord vs making people make github issues and wants to whine that this is taxing
This is so lame for the arch community, like
I use arch btws are supposed to be the most hardcore power users and they bugged a dev that badly! I don’t know how many tutorial I saw about compiling arch and building everything yourself into a minimal setup.You can’t give me shit for using Manjaro for as long as I did, GLAD I LEFT.
can I say something a little stupid
Thx!
So I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with ignoring emails. Emails are a kinda public way for anyone to start a conversation with you. As developers, we include our emails in commits — but we don’t have to. I don’t think GitHub even checks whether the email addresses in commits are valid.
So yeah, if you have a valid reason to reach out to a developer, go ahead. But if that developer disagrees or doesn’t want to respond, that’s just how it is — you can’t make someone email you back.
I’m just being consistent with myself. I always tell my friends and family about the importance of the block button, and I’ll say the same thing here: just ignore it. And in this case someone would have eventually fixed the problem and submitted a PR.
~sry if I was condescending~
I submitted a PR and bug report for something I was using recently to better help arch users install it in the future. I encourage other folks to do that. If you ever have trouble installing something, just submit a little PR with tweaks to the README that would’ve helped you. Oftentimes they’ll accept them. It benefits everyone.
Most arch users are casuals that finally figured out how to read a manual. Then you have the 1% of arch users who are writing the manual…
It’s the Gentoo and BSD users we should fear and respect, walking quietly with a big stick of competence.
As a 10 year Arch user* I concur. Reports of danger are vastly exaggerated. Most software comes pre-compiled and tested. I never had any more (or less) problems than with Debian stable.
Newcomers often underestimate the importance of its wiki, and some are perpetually unwilling to understand.
I’ve ever run arch, yet.
I’m used to scanning forums and wikis to find fixes, would arch be a “walk in the park” for me?
Thinking of switching from an oclp build on my old MacBook to Linux, as performance is lackluster on the latest build and I don’t even use the continuity features on my Mac
Edit: barely any context from what I’ve searched fixes for, nice crap comment.
I’ve run Ubuntu quite a lot years ago and ran popos recently. I also did quite a lot of android custom roms on a huge number of devices (saying this, only horror stories I have are android fuckery and hardware issues, guess I’ll be fine)
Arch probably has more documentation online than any other distro.
Just check out the Arch wiki, it’s insane.
So yeah, if you’re used to looking up solutions online, Arch might actually be the best distro for you.
barely any context from what I’ve searched fixes for, nice crap comment.
I don’t know what this means.
It meant that I didn’t give that much context in my comment and kindly flamed myself before a stranger got the chance to it haha
Thanks for the kind comment.
Manjaro was my first Arch distro and I enjoyed it until I found out about the issues with packages always being out of date. Switched over to EndeavourOS and have been loving it so far. It’s been “just working” for like two years now and even my 70 year old parents don’t notice a difference from Windoze when they borrow my laptop. In fact my dad is using it to do some Quicken work today (which was an adventure to get working. WineHQ community was super helpful though)
I don’t know how many tutorial I saw about compiling arch
2 things wrong with that:
- No end user compiles ArchLinux from source
- One of the first things you’re told when using ArchLinux is to peruse the Wiki, not “many tutorial”
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Gamers can be the most entitled demanding assholes. Arch users can be the most annoying arrogant and conceited people to exist online.
I wouldn’t dare imagine dealing with the unholy mix of arch gamers min-maxing social skills for inferiority complex.
I’d rather drop support too.
You mean “self-entitled”. When you’re “entitled”, you are owed something.
It would be saner to drop direct tech support than to drop support for an operating system
Is there a specific interaction that made them angry?
Is there a specific interaction that made them angry?
Stenzek’s feeling got hurt when DuckStation was still proper open source software and people used the software fully in accordance with its license, i.e. they distributed modifications and not all permitted modifications were the most polished ones, so he felt that they give his name a bad reputation. Again: Stenzek released DuckStation under a license that explicitly allows this.
So he rage quit open source and released new DuckStation versions under a very restrictive “source available to look but not touch” license that’s so insanely restrictive, Linux distributions are not allowed to make their own packages. So they ship the old version that works just fine because PlayStation 1 emulation was figured out very long ago. Stenzek feels that they should not ship the old version (which they are fully entitled to) and instead make a special exception for his software alone to point their users to DuckStation’s website where instead of acquiring the emulator from their package manager (or “app store” in case you’re not familiar with that term), Linux users should take extra steps to manually download and install DuckStation.
And since users may not know about this rift, they may post bug reports and feature ideas to Stenzek, even though these bugs may have been long fixed by non-open source DuckStation.
Basically: Stenzek did not read the license he picked for his software and then got mad when people made use of provisions explicitly allowed by the license.
So that’s why he hates Linux lol. What a fucking weirdo.
This should be top comment if true.
It is the simple truth
This is a great case for a “reader added context” feature for Lemmy, if it could be implemented in a decent way.
It is implemented. It’s known as “comments”. You are looking at it. There’s no need for any particular UI feature for this stuff.
Reader added context is nice because it averts drive by upvoting of titles that are misleading (and vice versa), as most voters do not dig through the comments.
Hence this very phenomenon of highly upvoted posts that probably wouldn’t be so with the missing context.
Tbf a substantial amount of voters did see the comment - at the time of writing, 297 upvotes on the comment vs 483 upvotes on the post, or ~61%. So actually most people do dig through the comments, if the upvote count is something to go by at least.
Anyone who doesn’t read comments is unlikely to read reader added context, so you’re probably not getting a large amount of the remaining 39% of people to get the context just because you add some extra UI feature.
Besides, explaining the context is a much longer affair than a title and just wouldn’t fit. It’s not like I would even say that the title of this post is misleading in the first place, it’s actually pretty to-the-point.
There’s also a chance that people will get the wrong idea about posts without the context - i.e. that posts without reader added context are super truthful somehow. I feel that people should rather accept that all titles of a few sentences are missing context. That is after all the point of a title - to summarize and bring only the most important information, which inevitably leads to a loss of context.
Could be a good feature to add to PieFed, which is built on Python specifically to allow more developers to have access to building extensions and plugins.
Programming language isn’t a problem as much as the mechanics of the implementation.
I mean, how does it work on Twitter? Do they have oldschool language models parse upvoted comments and automatically generate it? Basically the options are:
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Involve some kind of ML model for partial automation, which is not going to go over well with Lemmy users.
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Leave the UAC completely to mods, which is going to both overburden them and make power-tripping issues far worse
On old Twitter, community notes was simply a function of raising a flag for tweets that got ratio’d. This would open those tweets up for Community Notes users to submit a fact check. Then, the fact check with the highest upvotes gets displayed as the default one.
Now? Not sure. Elon is a sneaky fucker. But I do think it could be implemented as a simple comment queue that admins and moderators could set user roles to help with.
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This happens way too much.
“What? People are doing things with my Apache project I don’t like!?”
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“What? People are doing things with my Apache project I don’t like!?”
Well, at least for the GPL https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html exists, so there is no excuse because of incomprehensible legalese.
Like Aether all over again
Same dev. Different alias.
Remind me please. I just made an analogy, I want to see if it’s the same narcissistic dissonance.
lol
One of the most entitled takes I’ve ever read.
The guy built software and opened sourced it. People started packaging it for their favourite distribution repositories and then users started coming to him for support on problems he didn’t create!
It’s like if you were a farmer selling eggs and some kids bought your eggs and started throwing them at people’s houses and then instead of the cops arresting the kids they come arrest you for selling eggs. It’s bullshit!
How does that analogy make any sense? No one has done anything malicious to him. He released open source software, got mad and revoked the open source license for newer versions, then got even more mad when people continued using the old open source version. Which is a problem he brought on himself. And his continued tantrums still won’t keep distros from packaging the only version they even can package.
He got mad because people kept bugging him to fix problems created by other people which he has no control over. His “tantrums” are his way of re-asserting control over his life.
Open source dev burnout from support requests is a real and widespread phenomenon. When a software developer releases the fruits of their hard work they are doing the wider community a service. When large numbers of people begin to contact the developer for support the effect can be overwhelming even though every individual request may be legitimate and non-malicious.
In the case of packaging errors created by a third party not in contact with (let alone under the control of) the developer, these support requests for dealing with unsolvable and irrelevant (in the developer’s eyes) problems can be absolutely maddening.
I am quite sure the developer would have had no issues with people doing what they did as long as they accepted the responsibility to fix their own issues without contacting him. The fact that they did not do so (and therefore caused him grief) is negligent even if it isn’t malicious.
No he gets mad at users and insults them even when it is his own code. He’s a royal asswad. This isn’t even the first time he’s created a problem due to his own short sightedness then bitches about the results.
This ENTIRE problem is of his own making.
Sure users are annoying, but when you fuck up you don’t just insult the confused users due to your own fuck up. While doubling down and making it worse for yourself.
This guy is self defeating.
Is the issue with the packaging, or that only an outdated version can be packaged?
He could fix the license, then people would push the up to date version and users wouldn’t report old bugs.
The entire reason he changed the license was because the people didn’t keep the packages up to date.
He changed the license in the first place because someone took unpublished code from him and contributed it to another project. He had permission from his other contributors when he did that but people still went on GPL crusades against him.
Now it’s the issue of people re-packaging his releases for other package managers such as AUR (which is against the license) and doing so incorrectly which leads to support requests from the users of broken packages.
There’s a whole community of people who have turned hostile to this guy over his decisions but it comes off as a sense of entitlement on their part. This is after all an emulation community which is full of people who simply use these tools to run pirated old games. They don’t understand the hard work that goes into a sophisticated emulator. They just want more, better, faster! Gimme gimme gimme is all they know!
Am I misunderstanding something? Was he not present in his own discord server meant for troubleshooting?
For troubleshooting issues with his code. Not with broken packages created by others that he has no power to fix.
You can just not publish your actual contacts and choose what you will and wont offer support on your public facing persona.
But then you can’t offer support to users of your upstream code.
This is an issue of open source etiquette and there’s no technical solution that can solve it. There have been numerous passionate developers who have been run right out of open source by well-meaning users who simply don’t know the protocol around contacting a developer for support.
That’s what I do 😁. No real names unless it’s something I don’t care about.
I only support a couple of pip/composer/ect…and others package it up for any specific is or implementation. I always tell people “I will accept new prs” but if say I’m on vacation, I just don’t look at the package. If it’s bad enough, someone can fork and everyone else can move on with their lives. Hasn’t happened yet on the couple of packages that got popular (?) but it’s the lifecycle of open source.
Most people arguing from analogies are doing so because they can’t actually make a coherent argument against THING so they make a bad analogy and then expect you to unwind the 17 ways the analogy and the thing are different. This being a waste of time. I’ll just tell you that your analogy is trash and you should do better.
Issue isnt so much the 12 arch users that actually know what they are doing, but all the fucking posers
Arch users can be the most annoying arrogant and conceited people to exist online.
Ðe maintainers are ðe same. I don’t know if it’s ðe chicken, or ðe egg, but distro maintainers do tend to set ðe tone.
And, yeah, I use Arch everywhere, because so far everyþing else is worse.
No idea what is going on with your comment, but whatever it is is not English. I typically only block spammers and trolls, but happily you definitely fall into one or the other (or both.)
Stop trying to make eth or thorn happen. You just make your comments harder to read
For me it is no harder to read, it’s more like people sprinkling in Shakespearean English to their normal speech, it just comes off as either being pretentious, or random xd
It just looks like depressed lower case d to me. So de eggs and de chicken. Makes him look like a child from Gaia online trying to be quirky and different which is really rather annoying to read.
If I wanted to hang around minors I would go spend time with my cousins. Not go to social media.
Agreed.
While users can be demanding, this reads like a very immature response. Going out of your way to block support and prohibit packaging, which you can let others do with 0 seconds of your time, is kinda rude.
Author may have been harassed for all I know, but this is still an emotional response. They could have just said “yeah I’m not supporting this at all, figure it out yourselves if you want to” rather than actively blocking Linux functionality/packaging, which is what this sounds like.
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Just because it’s open source doesn’t mean it’s necessarily open for all uses. His license explicitly denied using his code in packages. People did it anyway.
There exists pkgbuilds for arch and previously packages of the older GPL builds.
A pkgbuild is just a recipe for each users computer do do the stuff needed to fetch and or build publicly available software. It is copyright the writer of the recipe not the owner of the software thus fetched. That is to say the owner of foobar can’t copyright the functional equivalent of a bash script which does git clone and make install foobar.
The older versions thereof are still available under the GPL and aren’t subject to being removed.
Neither of these are actually subject to the authors whims. He doesn’t own the pkgbuild and if he chooses to offer the file to users they can download it either by manually git cloning it or having a script do it.
So no they didn’t “do it anyway”
Just because it’s open source
It’s not open source. The maintainer relicensed the project from GPL to the current source-available license last year.
The AUR package uses the last GPL release before the change and thus does the current license does not apply.
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Seems like just repackaging it would solve the problem a lot easier than alienating a userbase- even if small
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It should end at the dev putting out some sort of communication stating they’re not responsible for packaging, and to reach out to the package maintainers with issues installing from a package and not from the officially documented/supported installation procedure. That isn’t out of the norm at all for the open source community, and is one of the main reasons for releasing source code - to enable other people to build it and try to get it to work in whatever environment they want to.
That shouldn’t require a change to a much more restrictive license, and it certainly shouldn’t require implementing changes to your code that force it to fail on specific OSes (like what was recently added for Arch).
The overwhelming majority of Linux users are on 4 distros + derivatives. Debian Fedora Arch Suse not “thousands”
Where would what end? Most actually open source projects just publish releases to source and provide as much or as little support as they feel like. Slap a github issues page up and tell every user that you are only interested in dealing with bugs in the most recent version in whatever official channel you prefer eg provide appimage of releases and insist that users reproduce and document bug.
Time wasted mostly wont even bother to create a github account and if they do close issues if they can’t follow directions.
Plus you can just make a flatpak or appimage and be done with it since those are distro agnostic. Wouldn’t be the first software where the flatpak is the only supported version and the AUR isn’t; see OBS
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So this is more like source available rather than open source…
Open but not free.
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He explicitly states that it is not 0% of his time due to being bombarded with support requests.
Are you volunteering to field the support requests?
What I’m saying is that a more reasonable stance is to say “package as-is or fork it if you want I will put 0 effort to accomodate”.
Others have clarified that they are not as extreme as I thought though so maybe that’s fine.
I just think that from a perspective this seems like a “people in X country keep writing gay fanfic about my book and asking if A and B characters are gay. so I’m gonna stop selling there and also destroy All copies left in their language. Because I’m a petty man-child”.
But, once again, I hope this is not what’s actually happening here and my reading was off.
You cannot fork the current project because it is not open source anymore. A fork of the last available GPL release would be possible, though.
As an open source developer, I’d love to have had contributors to help package my apps. It was killing me maintaining everything by myself. It sounds like the control issues I had when I first had contributors, where I didn’t want others to touch my babies too much when people actually started writing code.
Honestly as a dev, I just don’t give a fuck. Is that a licence? MIT is close enough.
I let people pr and if it breaks something, oh well. It’s not attached to my real name anyway. A good ci/cd saves time and mental energy so I don’t have to publish and test. If I bother.
There’s some things like onionos that I’ve helped out with thst I actually take pride in. But it’s all for fun. Why not, it’s my time. Code will come and go, but I left things a tiny bit better for all y’all.
You may appreciate the Do What the Fuck You Want to Public License, though more alternatives are usually recommended.
Sometimes external packaging is a huge issue for certain projects, where their support gets flooded with stuff that isn’t in their control and their reputation gets tanked.
…That being said, a PS1 emulator doesn’t seem so extreme to warrant that?
