Why would Joe Biden do this?
I’m assuming the lack of /s is what’s getting people here
I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here. Are you trying to imply he was’t complicit in the genocide? His administration sent billions (with a b!) in military aid to Israel, as they were committing a genocide.
Do you really think biden would have say look israel you either let the flotilla reach gaza or we will stop giving you billions of dollars to continue genocide
It isn’t relevant because he’s not President, and using speculation about what he might have done does not justify or excuse abominable behavior.
So why the other guy still bring biden to the topic? Which abdominal behavior are you talking about?
It’s the new “thanks Obama”.
His comment was sarcasm, since MAGA Nazis always try to blame one of their favorite Democratic boogymen for everything, even stuff they are fully responsible for.
The abominable behavior I am talking about is the Gaza Genocide.
This is no time for sarcasm. Any decent person in a topic like that should simply condemn israeli actions and keep protesting against western complicity or continuing bds actions
There is always time for sarcasm and black humor, you joyless doughnut. You sound like a parrot. This is how you survive hard/scary/terrible times.
Yes, the fascists may kill you but at least you can spit on them and make fun of their mother.
you joyless doughnut. You sound like a parrot. re you like 5 years old? I thin a 5 years old is less childish than you
Would it be feasible to chill off the coast and use drones to bypass the blockade to deliver aid?
I’m sure the range is too far or someone would have already done it, but it’s an idea.
The point of this was never to deliver aid. The point was to have the exact result that has played out. It’s doubtful they were even carrying food, they did this with the intent on being boarded to produce propaganda. The IDF handed out sandwiches to mitigate the propaganda. Both parties knew how it would play out, the Freedom Flotilla got some video to monetize, mission accomplished, I guess.
Also there is no way to distinguish between a drone carrying food from a Houthi drone carrying munitions. The drones would be shot down. Though you never know, the Freedom Flotilla crowd might try it if they feel that it would be good propaganda. Though it’s doubtful since whatever boat they launched these drones from would be quickly boarded and they would be detained for potentially a long time before it could be verified the drones they launched weren’t weapons.
Gaza is under a declared blockade. Israel has the legal right to board any ship bound for Gaza under international law. The whole Freedom Flotilla thing is just dumb entertainment for the ignorant. It changes exactly nothing.
The Israeli government needs to release their hostages.
This is something that I see a lot and it’s irks me the wrong way every time. I know that people on the internet get emotional, but we gotta stop abusing words. The word hostage describes something very specific, in this case it’s this:
a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement (source)
Basically a hostage is a prisoner that is specifically held captive to be used as a bargaining chip.
This is precisely the reason why the hostages taken by Hamas are called as such. They were taken with intention of using them to cut a deal with Israel later on. But in this case, Israel is very unlikely to use the people on this boat to negotiate any deal, we don’t even know if they’re even going to be detained or released once the ship gets routed to one Israel’s ports. But if Israel does detain after the fact then that’s just imprisonment.
The only ones ever trying to devalue the meaning of words are fascists.
Many Palestinians in Israeli prisons were put in there for resisting settlers when they started taking land.
Those are hostages, not prisoners.
But when Hamas takes hostages they are indisputably hostages.
They have absolutely used Palestinian prisoners as bargaining chips. Many imprisoned Palestinians have not been convicted of a crime.
Okay, but we’re talking about this crew specifically. They serve no purpose as hostages.
No I’m talking about the people the Israli government kidnaps whether they are white or not.
So what term then? Political Prisoner? Arbitrarily Detained Prisoner? Torture Subject?
Detained suspect, Detained for National Security or equivalent is probably what goes on the paperwork. If they’re held longer than reasonable repatriation takes, they would then become prisoners of some type.
Informally, prisoner is probably used the most, in spite of whatever is actually correct.
Suspect? All evidences show that they did nothing wrong
Damn Lemmy be stupid prickly looking for fascists to hate under every bush and purity tests as far as the eye can see. Y’all are silly.
I was talking about the likely terminology the Israeli gov would use in reference to Greta and such.
Genuine question, how did you come up with any of these? Do you just throw any random label without taking into account what they mean?
To be imprisoned means to be kept in confinement as a punishment. They’re not prisoners by the definition of the word nor are they being tortured (like where did you even get this from?). If we were to label their current status accurately then they’re arrestees in custody of Israel.
Starvation is a form of torture, and there are many reports alleging other forms of torture.
Do you have any evidence that this crew is being starved or tortured?
Palestinians in Israeli custody.
According to Israeli human rights organization HaMoked between 1 October and 1 November, the total number of Palestinians held in administrative detention, without charge or trial, rose from 1,319 to 2,070.
Testimony from released detainees and human rights lawyers, as well as video footage and images illustrate some of the forms of torture and other ill-treatment prisoners have been subjected to by Israeli forces over the past four weeks. These include severe beatings and humiliation of detainees, including by forcing them to keep their heads down, to kneel on the floor during inmate count, and to sing Israeli songs.
You understand we’re talking about this crew, right? You understand you posting this has zero relevance to the claim you made or the topic at hand, right?
Does it also mean if someone abduct someone just for vengence without any demand to the family of the victim mean he don’t have a hostage?
I’m sorry, but I’m having a difficult time understanding what you’re asking. Are you asking if someone counts as a hostage if they got abducted by someone else just for vengeance? If so, then no, they’re not hostages. This would be considered a kidnapping.
Ok, don’t you think detaining people that comitted no crimes at all is illegal?
Illegal? No, most countries arrest people on grounds of probable cause. In this case, Israel can just cite that they arrested this crew for national security reasons, which is technically legal. During their arrest they’ll determine whether or not they want to file charges against them. If they do then they’ll proceed to a trail, otherwise they’ll be released.
They didn’t find any arms and was arrested outside of israeli terroritory. It is illegal in fact the whole blockade is illegal. It is so disgusting that you defend an occupying force https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo.amp
I’m not defending it, I’m just pointing that the detainment of this point and it’s crew is technically legal. Agreeing or disagreeing with is irrelevant to the point.
I hope Germany, France, Brazil, Sweden, Turkey, Spain, the Netherlands, and Ireland starting fighting for the return of their hostages now that Israel has illegally kidnapped them. If not, what a fucking betrayal of the social contract, beyond how shredded and tattered that’s become in the modern day and age.
Yeah that’s not happening, Sweden’s foreign Minister has already come out and said that Greta Thunberg is safe, is a moron, and doesn’t need help but if she does then she’ll get the same help by the embassy as any other Swedish citizen:
Several protesters had gathered outside the Parliament House on Monday. This is to call on the Swedish government to act against Greta Thunberg and several other activists being arrested at sea outside Gaza.
“Israel has, as we judge, some opportunities to escort this ship with the international law,” the foreign minister said when she was interviewed outside the Chamber.
Israel claims Thunberg is “safe.” Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard believes that Thunberg is currently not in need of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ support.
“There is a great responsibility on those who choose to travel in violation of the advice that exists into a place,” says Malmer Stenergard.
“If she gets a need for consular support, we will do everything we can, just as we do with all Swedish citizens,” she continues. Encouraged to put pressure
The Ministry for Foreign Affairs is said to have been called down on Monday, says Malmer Stenergard. This after Greta Thunberg on social media urged “friends, family and comrades” to put pressure on Sweden’s government. This is what Maria Malmer Stenergard can have consequences.
“It is quite dangerous to conduct a campaign that means that the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ consular emergency services will be called down. As a consequence, that the needy Swedes in the world will have to wait far too long in line, says the foreign minister.
Wasn’t that the plan in the first place, to get media attention?
There was no other realistic option.
Yes, it’s publicity stunt. If Israel for whatever reason decided to let them get close to Gaza’s shore, they will never actually land. They will get close then turn they will their boat around and head back.
If they actually landed in Gaza, they won’t be welcomed as heroes. Instead, they would almost immediately get taken as hostages by either Hamas or normal civilians to use in negotiations with Israel. These activists know this, which is why they informed Israel and the rest of the world what the path they will take, what time they will travel, and what boat they’ll be using for the trip.
If they arrive to gazathey would definitely be killed by the idf terrorists not hamas
It literally doesn’t matter, they’re not going to step foot into an active war zone. The purpose of this whole stunt is get media attention.
Of course they hoped to get media attention, that’s what Greta does, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t on a true humanitarian mission to get aid into Gaza as well.
A single small sailboat with barely any cargo capacity and with 12 activists on board, is enough evidence to determine that this is just a publicity stunt. The group claims to have taken different types of supplies as aid, but they didn’t give specific numbers. The only ones that I could find with numbers were 100kg of flour, 250kg of rice, and 600 diapers. Keep in mind, that’s 2 50kg bags of flour, 5 50kg bags of rice, and 3 large boxes of diapers. You could fit the amounts they’ve taken for these 3 supplies in the back of a typical pickup truck. The supplies on the ship are clearly just symbolic.
Media attention to israel effectly always been in control of gaza and refusing basic aid to enter anxillegally controlled area.
What utter nonsense!
What part is untrue?
The entire take, rooted in a blatantly racist and frankly insane fantasy of Palestinian society.
How do you even come up with this level of unhinged speculation entirely disconnected from reality?
This literally just a bunch of meaningless word salad. You either actually explain your disagreement or concede that you have nothing.
the original plan was:
Israel would see them and say, “fine, go ahead and bring food to palestine”.
The crew include Rima Hassan, a Franco-Palestinian deputy of the U.E (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rima_Hassan), that has been elected to defend Palestine inside the European Parlement. So that’s not a surprise that the crew has a better treatment that the others.
I’m surprise that the article do not mention her presence
She was mentioned in a Wikipedia article related to this voyage that I was reading about. It’s super weird for any article talking about this to exclude her, as she’s arguably as big of a deal as Greta.
I think they’re getting better treatment because they were very clear that this whole thing is meant to be a publicity stunt. The idea was to have Israel come and intercept them from the start, they never had any plans to actually land on Gaza. This is why they spelled out exactly what they were going to do, why didn’t carry any real amount of aid, and why they were so cooperative when Israel did eventually intercept them.
Do y’all reckon the Israeli Navy is actually going to kill Greta?
My guess is that somebody will choke first in this game of chicken. Hopefully it’s the Israeli military.
No, this is what will realistically happen:
- They’ll intercept the boat
- They’ll haul it to a nearby Israeli port (like the port of Ashdod)
- They’ll detain and question the people on board for a bit to confirm their identities
- They’ll call their respective embassies in Israel
- They’ll have them either released to the embassies or directly deported to their countries
And that would be the end of it.
I’m not sure what you’re basing your predictions on. Have you studied what they’ve done to similar vessels in the past? I know of only two, the raid in 2010, where they killed 9 people, and the the one earlier this year, where they shot at the ship with two drones. That’s fairly limited, but quite a far cry from your predictions.
This is actually based on what they did in during the 2010 incident. At the same there 6 boats, not one like this time. 3 of the boats at the time were for cargo and 3 were for passengers. 5 of the boats that were intercepted went through what I described above, but the last one was the one you’re talking about. It was one of the passenger boats, it has 590 passengers on board. Of these passengers, 40 or so of them refused to cooperate with the Israeli soldiers on board and some started attacking them. This resulted in the Israeli soldiers killing 9, a 10th one died 4 years later due to related injuries, and injured a dozens more. At the same time the activists injured 10 Israeli soldiers, including one that was in serious condition. Even then, the rest of the passengers were still released after the incident.
So I don’t really see how you go from seeing Israel kill 10 passengers to your 6 point prediction. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but considering we’re dealing with the modern day equivalent of nazis who seem to enjoy support from most western governments, I find more grim scenarios equally likely.
I mean we have to go based on the evidence that we have, right? We can’t make up scenarios and pretend they’re reality when they’re not. In this case, Israel radioed the boat to change course to the port of Ashdod and informed the activists that maritime traffic is closed. After that the boat has been intercepted. That’s all we know thus far. Beyond this point, it’s just speculation. I’m saying that based on the history of these incidents, the intercepted boats do actually get routed to the port Ashdod, and then from there the activists are taken into custody until Israeli authorities contact their respective embassies who will help organize their release.
Exactly! So it doesn’t make sense to have this whole detailed prediction which resembles nothing that’s ever happened before. That’s all I’m saying.
And 6. The aid that was meant for the starving children of Gaza will be stolen, destroyed, or left to rot in some warehouse.
The aid is just symbolic. Gaza has 2 million people, a single small sailboat worth of partial cargo isn’t enough to even be considered a drop in the bucket. The only real way humanitarian aid can make a difference is if Israel and Egypt allow hundreds of tucks in daily.
Well, I guess it has utility because we’re talking about it. It’s expensive but I don’t really think there’s much else that can be done other than state level actors putting a stop to it. Or like a reverse crusade where freeing Palestine from Israel is the goal, need a leader for that.
Well, I guess it has utility because we’re talking about it.
I guess, but at the same time this has been the most talked about international conflict of this decade so they’re bringing attention to a thing that is already receiving a lot of attention.
I don’t really think there’s much else that can be done other than state level actors putting a stop to it. Or like a reverse crusade where freeing Palestine from Israel is the goal, need a leader for that.
Force is not going to end this catastrophe. First of all nobody wants to get directly involved, especially on the side of the Palestinians, but even if they did, Israel is quite strong. Arab coalitions in the past tried to do just this and they weren’t successful.
The only way for this conflict to actually end is for Israel to end it, and the only way this can happen is if Netanyahu and his coalition get ousted from government. He should’ve been in prison decades ago, but it’s very likely he will be once this war ends which is likely why he doesn’t want to end it. Regardless, if this government doesn’t collapse soon, then we will have to wait until the next general Israeli elections on Oct 27th, 2026. Either Netanyahu’s coalition ends the war themselves to try to win back the public before the elections or the opposing coalition is going to end it right after they win.
At this point, I think Israel is capable of anything, including the most abhorrent human rights violations imaginable.
For the rest of my life, I will view Israel through the same lens as I view Nazi Germany. They are two sides of the same coin.
This is an easy PR win. Treat them kindly, send them on their way home, no harm no foul. Then go back to committing genocide.
If they do, .world is where the party is gonna be.
Huh? How do you figure that?
Most of the lemmy users who spent the last year of the biden presidency shouting abuse at people who opposed genocide are on .world
.world is pretty unanimous on opposing genocide. How do you define “shouting abuse at people who opposed genocide.”
Here, watch. The biden administration had no business selling weapons to netanyahu when it became clear that they were being used to commit genocide.
Completely agree, and would like to add:
With all of the info coming out about Biden basically being puppet-stringed through those last few years, I think it’s safe to say anything he “approved” was basically putting a stamp in a sleeping person’s hand and using their arm to stamp the paper.
Soooo……who ACTUALLY called the shots, made the plans, etc, with regard to Israel policy?
That’s what I wanna know, like, yesterday.
Well yeah. Pretty much everybody agrees that Biden didn’t help, allowed the weapon supply to continue. Trump is worse. Kamala would have been better but not good. I don’t think any of this is particulary controversial. The election wasn’t really about the Democrats being better, they just suck less.
Pretty much everybody agrees that Biden didn’t help, allowed the weapon supply to continue.
Not on .world.
Trump is worse.
Yeah, no shit.
Kamala would have been better but not good.
She literally said she didn’t differ from biden on the issue.
I don’t think any of this is particulary controversial.
It was on .world. And now you’re pretending otherwise.
The election wasn’t really about the Democrats being better, they just suck less.
Gloat more that there is no anti-genocide party.
It is almost 20 months since Israel launched a military campaign in Gaza in response to the unprecedented Hamas-led cross-border attack on Israel on 7 October 2023
It is almost 20 months since the US-backed colonial occupation launched its extermination campaign in Gaza in response to the ghetto uprising on 7 October 2023
The Oct 7 terrorist attacks weren’t ghetto uprising. They weren’t spontaneous, grassroots, or widespread. They were premeditated terrorist attacks by specific terrorist groups to cause as much harm as they could to the nearby Israeli population. The first and second intifadas could be argued as ghetto uprisings, this is nothing like that.
I suspect Hamas took a page out of Bin Laden’s playbook, and expected Oct 7 to invite an extreme reaction, the same way Sept 11 drew America into two decades of war, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.
America will never recover from 9/11, and Israel will never recover from 10/7, no matter how many Muslims they murder.
I suspect Hamas took a page out of Bin Laden’s playbook, and expected Oct 7 to invite an extreme reaction, the same way Sept 11 drew America into two decades of war, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.
I don’t think Bin Laden predicted America’s reaction to 9/11, most of the world, including Americans didn’t either. I also don’t think Hamas has the capacity to be this strategic. I think it really is as simple as it was. They planned a bunch of terrorist attacks to cause as much harm and damage as possible to Israel and Israelis, and then take a bunch of civilians hostage to escape the consequences that would ensue. I think Hamas banked on Israel’s history of giving up a lot to retrieve their hostages to sign a ceasefire right after the attacks and get the hostages back. They probably didn’t expect Israel to ditch the hostages and start bombing Gaza into oblivion like this.
America will never recover from 9/11, and Israel will never recover from 10/7, no matter how many Muslims they murder.
Countries will always recover from tragedy. If Japan can recover after being burned down and nuked, if Poland can recover from a century of Nazi and Soviet occupation, if China can recover from the worst famine in history, then countries can recover from terrorist attacks and their aftermath.
Though I agree with you that trying to wipe out terrorist groups with force is futile. You can’t erase ideologies with violence. What America did and Israel is doing now is playing a futile game of whackomole where the only thing they end up achieving is killing a lot of innocent people and throwing obscene amounts of money down the drain.
Been going on a lot longer than that…
I cringe every time I read “the war in Gaza”. It is clearly a genocide. There is no way one could say otherwise, in good faith. The fact that my tax dollars are funding this sickens me.
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hey look another genocide apologist
I was about to say hey, they’re being sarcastic. Then I checked their comment history
20 months since Palestine attacked Israel setting off a war.
Yeah because it was all sunshine and rainbows before then
you’re totally right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
Why are you only focusing on what Palestine does?
I don’t understand. every single person here aside from maybe one other guy is trashing israel without any regard for Israel’s perspective. the viewpoints here are completely unbalanced. why would you ask that question?
Asking the perspective of occupying forces?
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You aren’t putting forward “Israel’s perspective, you’re just dissing Palestine.
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Israel was created in 1948 and has attacked Palestine and whatever else took its fancy ever since. The father who had gone to register his child, the World Kitchen, a group of ambulances, and now the Madleen crew being particular examples…
But please, enlighten me, what the fuck is their “perspective”?
dude, jews have existed in israel since way before 1948. read about about middle eastern pogroms and get back to me.
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Person with the Luigi fan account is suddenly concerned about a balanced viewpoint when it’s about not about their healthcare system.
Throwing rockets everytime israel create news settlements, demolish plaestinians homes or protect violent settlers
Bootlicker lmao
The ‘war’ has been going on long before 20 months ago. Unbelievably sheltered worldview you have.
Palestinians retaliating for israel oppresing them . Israel should just get the hell out of palestine
That was not a ghetto uprising, that was unchecked violence against Israeli civilians by terrorists. You do Gaza’s suffering civilians no justice by tying their plight to the actions of Hamas on Oct 7. Their only crime is existing.
Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
Wtf?
It’s a yes or no question. Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
THATS WHAT IM LITERALLY TALKING ABOUT YOU ABSOLUTELY DENSE IDIOTS.
I’m talking about INNOCENT WOMAN AND CHILDREN DYING IN A GENOCIDE IN GAZA but you are all so concerned about justifying “freedom fighters” and Oct 7 and smearing pro-Hamas bullshit all over everything that you can’t even comprehend basic English and do the complete opposite of helping these people by casting INNOCENT WOMAN AND CHILDREN as participants in an uprising.
JFC
not interested in your respectability politics shit, the American enablers have contributed far more to the suffering civilians than Hamas ever has by resisting their extermination.
Not interested in your bullshit takes that would only incite more violence against the Gaza civilians by painting Oct 7 as a popular uprising.
Honestly think before you speak if you actually care about these people.
Learn the history of Israel’s illegal occupation and siege before demonizing the resistance
the history starts before 1948.
the history starts before 1948.
20 months since Palestine attacked Israel setting off a war.
which is it? It’s almost like you’re just another westerner defending a genocide via selective reading of history
It started by foreigner wanting to force a state on local people
They are NOT resisting, these are innocent civilians… I don’t give a shit about Hamas I’m talking about women and children dying in Gaza. How is there disagreement on this basic acknowledgement of reality?
Israel is committing a genocide, as all settler colonial states eventually do, no disagreement there.
The disagreement is over whether Palestinians have a right to resist settler colonialism and forced displacement. International law and natural law says they do, it is obvious, but people who live in settler colonial states that were successful in eradicating the indigenous population won’t make that inconvenient admission.
So the Palestinian men can just die off I guess. According to you
No but these people are so dense that i have to spell it out like that so they understand the difference I’m drawing between Hamas/combatants/uprising vs. women and children living peacefully in their homes and not harming anyone on this planet but still getting bombs dropped on their heads. But still it’s on deaf ears.
Hey here comes the comfortable westerner to tell everyone what they think is bad optics.
This genocide could never happen without the Biden and Trumps full support. Hand-wrining about “terrorism” only serves defending the perpetrators while posing like you care about victims.
Sickening behavior really, but I’m used to it by now. American soldiers are terrorists, IDF are terrorists.
This genocide could never happen without the Biden and Trumps full support
I mean… No. This has been happening for 80+ fucking years and Israel would be doing it with or without US support.
They would certainly be trying, but it’s a lot harder to exterminate a captive population when you aren’t getting supplied a whole arsenal to do so.
Ok… So a bit different than “it could never happen”
But at least we got to be complicit like republicans and centrist democrats want.
It’s not about bad optics, you are literally doing what Israel is doing by equating Gaza civilians as “combatants” and thus making them targets. These people had nothing to do with Oct 7 I’m talking about little children and doctors and mothers and teachers and you’re on about this fucking freedom fighter uprising bullshit because you’re more concerned with justifying violence against Israel than caring about how many kids get bombed and starve to death in Gaza.
Fuck that bullshit.
You are the one making excuses for the occupation by calling their victims terrorists. A ghetto uprising describes the conditions accurately. You are the one doing the work of Israel by pretending that they have ever discriminated between ‘combatants’ and everyone else.
I guess feigning moral superiority must be how you sleep at night after a long day of jorkin it to Ukraine war killcams or whatever it is you weirdos do for fun.
I see, we are on 2 different topics here.
Have fun justifying Oct 7. I’ll pass on that bullshit.
I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza today, where 50,000 who had nothing to do with Oct 7 or any sort of “uprising” whatsoever have been killed.
It is a ghetto uprising. Israel before the genocide used to calorie count the food allowed in.
Palestinians retaliating against israel terrorism for 57 years
don’t you dare try to use logic here!
Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
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Tell me… how many civilians did the Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto murder? Was the IDF transporting trainloads of Civilians from Gaza to extermination camps?
It’s necessary to call out „Bibi“ and his friends and get them far away from any kind of power asap and forever. Also a whole lot of IDF troops (just like any like-to-be religious facists from the government) should get an „invitation“ to The Hague.
But comparing the massacre from October 7th to the Warsaw ghetto uprising is just ridiculous.
Feddit.org users again trying to act like they care about palestinians. You are ignoring the fact that every single goddamn israeli government was oppresing palestinians and comiting act of terrorism
They had complete control over the lives of people in Gaza to the point of calorie counting how much food was allowed in.
Would you be less supportive of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising if they did kill more civilians in Nazi Germany?
Masha Gessen
For the last seventeen years, Gaza has been a hyperdensely populated, impoverished, walled-in compound where only a small fraction of the population had the right to leave for even a short amount of time—in other words, a ghetto. Not like the Jewish ghetto in Venice or an inner-city ghetto in America but like a Jewish ghetto in an Eastern European country occupied by Nazi Germany. In the two months since Hamas attacked Israel, all Gazans have suffered from the barely interrupted onslaught of Israeli forces. Thousands have died. On average, a child is killed in Gaza every ten minutes. Israeli bombs have struck hospitals, maternity wards, and ambulances. Eight out of ten Gazans are now homeless, moving from one place to another, never able to get to safety.
The term “open-air prison” seems to have been coined in 2010 by David Cameron, the British Foreign Secretary who was then Prime Minister. Many human-rights organizations that document conditions in Gaza have adopted the description. But as in the Jewish ghettoes of Occupied Europe, there are no prison guards—Gaza is policed not by the occupiers but by a local force. Presumably, the more fitting term “ghetto” would have drawn fire for comparing the predicament of besieged Gazans to that of ghettoized Jews. It also would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated.
The Nazis claimed that ghettos were necessary to protect non-Jews from diseases spread by Jews. Israel has claimed that the isolation of Gaza, like the wall in the West Bank, is required to protect Israelis from terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians. The Nazi claim had no basis in reality, while the Israeli claim stems from actual and repeated acts of violence. These are essential differences. Yet both claims propose that an occupying authority can choose to isolate, immiserate—and, now, mortally endanger—an entire population of people in the name of protecting its own.
Adi Callai
Another case that is especially important to me as a Jewish person, having studied our history of persecution and rebellion, is the Sobibor Uprising. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is of course the most famous Jewish revolt of that era, and many people made the analogy, including Refaat Alareer, a Gazan poet who generated controversy for drawing this comparison on BBC, and who was murdered by Israel as a possible consequence. The Sobibor revolt, while much less well known, was more of a success story. Sobibor was a concentration camp where, in 1943, realizing they were all going to get killed, a small group of maybe twenty people, some of them prisoners of war, organized in secrecy, came up with a sophisticated plan to kill high-ranking SS officers, sabotage the electricity and communications infrastructure, take the guards’ weapons, loot the armory, arm the other inmates, open the gates, and let people escape and join the partisans. Launched on October 14, 1943, it worked, to an extent. Approximately half of the camp escaped. But only about fifty rebels survived the war. Still, that’s a much higher percentage than would’ve survived otherwise. And of course, there are infinite differences between these cases, but I instantly thought about it when I got the news from my sister, who lived in one of the settlements of the Envelope until October 7, in the family WhatsApp group, saying that their power went out, that there was some kind of sabotage of the electricity infrastructure in the October 7 operation.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
Was the IDF transporting trainloads of Civilians from Gaza to extermination camps?
They didn’t need to, their victims are already in the concentration camp, they just dumped unlimited amounts of US-made bombs gifted to them by their colonial patrons.
Also a whole lot of IDF troops (just like any like-to-be religious facists from the government) should get an „invitation“ to The Hague.
At this point every American politician acting on behalf of this should need to get tried for complicity as well.
This was a ghetto uprising, sickening that you feel the need to defend their executioners. The “murder factories” are on American soil, no need to ship people on trains, the colonists will happily deliver the US-made bombs to their victims.
Do we consider the armed German settlers living around the ghetto in a foreign country civilians? I mean they brought their own children to help colonize their new living space.
Israel didn’t need to put them on trains to extermination camps, they just turned the entirety of Gaza into an extermination camp.
The Nazis built literal murder-factories. The only purpose of those buildings was to murder as many people as possible and dispose of the bodies fast and efficiently. They tried to catch everyone that fit their definition of so called „unworthy life“ from all over Europe and brought them to their extermination camps to murder them. This is not what happened in Gaza before October 7th and it’s not what’s happening there now.
Even if half the stuff I read about Gaza was made up, there would be still more than enough reason to put Bibi and his goons behind bars forever. I think it’s necessary to be as precise and accurate as possible when talking about these kind of crimes because the truth is horrible enough without spicing it up with history-forgotten comparisons.
It’s not far off. They’re absolutely trying to kill all of Gaza at once. There’s a reason they’re repeatedly attacking anyone who brings food, including World Central Kitchen.
You’re aware of the food traps, right?
They absolutely will not allow Greta to bring aid to Gaza. They’d kill her if the PR wasn’t so bad.
Unlike a lot of the Gaza sympathizers, I do not excuse Oct 7th. It was an attack on Israel. It was not justified. Israel has a right to defend itself.
This isn’t defense. This is genocide. They’re trying to solve the problem permanently by killing nearly every last one of them. It’s a Final Solution.
Murdering turture and rape all happen in israeli jails
Your mom is unprecedented
Edit: not the person I’m replying to.
Oh man! C’mon guys, good luck out there. I hope you return to your homes safe and sound. Brave people.
Literally nothing is going to happen to them. They’re going to be released once they get the boat hauled to an Israeli port and then Israel’s calls their respective embassies. This was this group’s intention from the start.
The last time this was attempted, Israeli soldiers stormed the boat and killed ten people.
The event you’re referring to didn’t have a single boat. It was a fleet of 8 boats, but 2 of them were lagging behind due to mechanical issues. The 6 boats that continued ahead were radioed by Israel informing them that maritime traffic is closed and that they had to change course to the port of Ashdod if they wanted to continue. They denied the request and so the Israeli navy sent out patrol boats to intercept them.
5 of the 6 boats were intercepted without any issues, but one of the boats, the MV Mavi Marmara, which also had the highest number of passengers at 590, had around 40 of its passengers refuse to cooperate with the soldiers and started attacking them. This resulted in the soldiers killing 9 of them on the spot (a 10th died years later due to related injuries) and injured dozens more, and the activists ended up injuring 10 of the soldiers on board, including one who was in critical condition.
It was unfortunate situation all around, but it is nothing like this situation. Vastly different scales, crews, and interactions.
Sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla#Ties_with_groups_marked_as_terror_organizations
I’ve seen this one… it’s called The Phantom Menace
“My Lord, is that… legal?”
“I’ll make it legal!”
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sails into military blockade with the stated purpose of running the blockade
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gets intercepted
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pikachu-face
People of conscience disagree with the morality of this “blockade,” which is a nice weasel word by the way, when really what’s happening is people of Gaza are being exterminated while under total siege.
I disagree with the morality of personalized motorized transportation. Yet I don’t stand on a fucking highway and then make a surprised pikachu face when I get arrested.
This was what always was going to happen. They knew this was always going to happen. This is nothing to be surprised by, this whole action is just a publicity stunt.
Do you see how these two are not equivalent though? One is an aggressive campaign exterminate a people, that can be stopped if just slightly more political will is mustered.
Already, the tide is turning and you have even mainstream voices yapping at Israel to cease.
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It’s about the logic consequence of an action, so they are equivalent.
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If we go by the logic of “kills a lot of people and can be stopped quickly” then motorized transport is a lot worse. It kills a lot more people yearly and has multiple viable longterm solution that just need to be implemented.
Do fastfood next.
But no, I’m not getting into that fight with you, because it’s an argument without heart meant only to sap the will of people to oppose a very real and concerted genocide.
What do you propose to stop the genocide instead of morally defensible illegal acts?
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They knew what it would happen thst doesn’t make the consewuences ok
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What is this, the card says moops?? Oh pardon me, by all means, carry on with the unprecedented genocide!
The UN is often on the right side of these things, so anyone who cares about human life, human rights, states rights, or international fraternity, would naturally align themselves to that consensus.
…exactly my comment. Exactly which is why I said that governments rarely align with UN (aka. guidance)
Lemmy misinterpreting things as usual.
So you’re just… pointing out facts about international law in the thread about protesters trying to break a siege–what, for fun? I don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish.
Obviously various authorities and people are in disagreement over what is right/legal for the people of Gaza. That’s not something we’re confused about. We just by and large side with the people of Gaza.
Anyway, we all process differently, so I’m not trying to imply that you have ill intent. But that’s why people are reacting negatively to your comment. Obviously ANY authority that sides with the people of Gaza is going to be one we side with, even if US/Canada/Israel/etc does not recognise them.
So you’re just… pointing out facts about international law in the thread about protesters trying to break a siege–what, for fun? I don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish.
I was triggered at “See what UN said, we’re winning” mentality. It’s coping mechanism at best. People need to stop hoping for the UN to change things. See how European governments are slowly changing attitude after protests, not tweeting UN.
In any case, this is hopeless, I’m deleting my original comment and again regretting trying to talk some sense into people
I see. I apologize. I guess I lost that context while scrolling. I agree people shouldn’t get complacent by just pointing to some authority that on their own won’t change things.
This is like saying a judge is useless when law enforcers doesn’t apply thr ruling. UN is not useless, the country members are
It’s more like almost everyone agrees to something and then an authoritarian with veto power says no, which is a deep rooted problem with the UN itself
Is the USA authoritarian ? Does any country has veto on ICC and ICJ ruling ?
There is only one country that has threatened to arrest ICC/ICJ judges and threatened UN if they don’t do what they want.
EDIT: Actually, Israel might be the second one, but I can’t remember it from top of my head, bit I fully expect them to
Isreal I do not think has, but thats because the US will do it for them
Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
?? What? No. You completely missed my point. How is my being angry about lack of real action in any way equals to me supporting what is happening there? Are you illiterate?
It’s a very useful tool I deploy before bothering to engage with idiots. Asking the simple yes or no question helps us clean the rats out of this community. I have done it a few times in this thread with good results.
Why would not they just lie?
We’re not talking about smart people with critical thinking skills here lol.
What action did you do to support palestinians?
I just tried to, again, by changing people’s mentality and how you approach this problem, but, again, it’s backfiring because people don’t want to go out in the streets, but tweet at UN
Instead of being open about this, why are you seemingly coming at people who want things to finally change, instead of continuing this genocide? What have you done and what are you doing right now?
I reply to israeli propaganda, share videos of israeli terrorist crimes and do my part in the bds mouvement.
I also think about the after of the genocide if it ever stop which is to stop voting the parties who still support occupation
Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
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