I’m not a nutritional epidemiologist.
But I’ve started to get into learning about it in the last few months.
It’s really starting to feel like this is a giant bullshit field, and as much as they are trying to find useful results, there’s something severely wrong with how they seem to arbitrarily assign causality and correlation.
In a contrived example: “People who live near power lines have more cancer” - “No, poor people live near power lines because they’re poor, and poor people have more cancer”
What are the kind of people that eat processed hot dogs? I can promise you they are not millionaires. I can promise you it’s not people who can afford filet mignon but decide to have a steamed hot dog. It’s not people who work out and take care of their bodies. It’s not people who cook.
So when a study is done like this, what answer are you actually getting? probably finding out that the type of people who eat processed meat are more prone to these conditions for a variety of considerations that are just totally left out of the analysis.
Im so screwed.
So I have to eat raw meat?
Mett gang assemble!
7% increase of an already small chance in exchange for 1 hotdog/day doesn’t sound that bad to me.
It never seems that bad unless you’re in that small percent. Cancer’s a damned awful way to die.
Sure but there are a ton of things, genetic, environmental, dietary, neurochemical, etc. that can contribute to the development of cancer. You can do literally everything right and end up in the exact same place as someone who did all the wrong things because the causes are innumerable and many are literally unavoidable.
Would I regret my choices if I got cancer after I did all the things the studies say would increase my odds? Of course I would. Would I regret my choices if did everything “right” and still got cancer? Of course I would. But that’s because being in that position inherently biased you against your past. If I did all the wrong things I would regret that I indulged too much, and if I did all the right things I would regret that I never really indulged at all and enjoyed life fully. Either way you got shafted. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
But to me it’s better to just live intentionally but without having this constant concern about every single thing I eat, drink, or breath maybe, possibly, eventually contributing to developing cancer. Like I’m not about to start smoking, I rarely drink, I try to eat enough veggies, etc. because those things have much more tangible direct consequences that I’m mindful of, and I’m not about to eat a hotdog every day mostly because I’m a really good cook and that sounds sad as fuck. But the next time I do eat a hotdog, a salami, or a Reuben sandwich, I promise you that no part of my mind is going to be worrying that it will give me cancer. Constant dread is its own form of cancer and life’s too short and uncertain to live with that shit 24/7.
I know these things logically. I wish I could embed them more emphatically so that articles like this don’t kick up my anxiety the way they do. Thanks for putting this comment to remind me to come down from the ledge of needless dread and worry.
Worrying too much causes cancer
Well said.
Words to live by. Well put.
It’s also important to note that the studies included in the analysis were observational, meaning that the data can only show an association between eating habits and disease –– not prove that what people ate caused the disease
right. that’s just about any food study! it’s the trouble with the nutrition field in general
I think that if you know a person who eats a hot dog every day, you will have many other reasons to suspect that they’re unhealthy.
Eh they’re mostly water and sawdust.
Doing the Lord’s work here. Thank you.
as little as one hot dog a day
That still seems like a lot to me.
hello my name is Guy Who Eats 365 Hot Dogs Per Year, I’m here for chest pain
A hot dog a day keeps the doctors employed.
I suggest you don’t visit West Virginia…
Each year, West Virginians consume 481 hot dogs per capita, according to 24/7 Wall St. That means the average West Virginian eats more than one hot dog a day. Illinois locals love their Chicago dog, and they didn’t even come close to West Virginia’s annual hot dog consumption, hitting 317 per capita.
https://www.tastingtable.com/1887834/west-virginia-most-hot-dogs/
Coincidentally West Virginia has an obesity rate of 41%.
I feel like the west virginia statistic may be heavily biased by what a poor family might feed a child. I remember my parents using hot dogs for ‘cheap’ meat that could be doctored into meals that my picky toddler ass would eat.
West Virginia is what,the third poorest state in GDP per capita? The average there is poor, so yeah.
While I’m sure they meant a hotdog sized amount per day… yeah, thats terrible wording. When I eat hot dogs I might eat 2 or 3 at a cook out or something… then not eat hotdogs for like 3 months. They could have evoked the “amount” better. And even then… who eats that much ultra processed meat?
Think that’s about the average.
Deli meats, pizza toppings, bacon, etc.
how is bacon ultra processed meat? bacon is just part of a pig in the same way that loin or rump are. Unless US bacon is just reconstituted corn syrup like most of their stuff seems to be.
the curing process introduces carcinogenic nitrates, which is a similar risk factor, if I understand correctly
All bacon worldwide is processed meat because it’s treated to preserve shelf life.
Butcher bacon is different
I sure hope not. Sodium nitrite is one of the ‘problematic’ compounds and is used when curing meat, especially to prevent the bacteria that produces botulinum toxin from growing. While nitrites may kill you slowly, botulism can kill you much faster.
The problem with food that contains the botulism bacteria is that you don’t notice it. It doesn’t look or smell any different. Any meat that wasn’t cured using a specific minimum percentage of sodium nitrite is not to be trusted.
They use fewer chemicals but it’s still processed and still carcinogenic.
Tell us how it’s processed. You seem to know a lot about it.
It’s cured and smoked.
For as little as one hot dog a day, you could save this person from diabetes
Considering humans have been eating processed meats like these for centuries, I think I’ll take my chances.
Nitrites only date back to the middle of the 19th century.
We’ve been smoking, salting, and otherwise preserving meat for way longer than that, though. People usually died off from other things before cancer got them, that’s all. The relatively high number of cancer deaths is a product of medical intervention getting so good and so widespread that we don’t regularly die of sepsis from stepping on a splinter or catching communicable disease anymore.
Absolutely, fuck cancer. But cancer went from being a minor concern to a relatively common one because we conquered so many other avenues of death, systematically and carefully, until we’re down to time, neglect and negligence as the three main ways humanity gets itself to the Reaper.
And our rates of intestinal cancer have been rising steadily to the point where now it’s a common killer, so we’ve become afraid of it in our quest to live long, pain-free lives.
Things change as we learn. Why we don’t use lead in our pipes anymore. Safe, biocompatible plastic only.
If the rates have been rising, wouldn’t that prove it’s not processed meats like these? It would be something that’s being introduced at a steady rate lately, not something that’s been around for centuries.
Nitrites have being slowly “introduced” at a steady rate lately
It is likely many factors at once but it’s also important not to assume causation where there is a correlation. Keep in mind also our mechanism of detection is better now than it’s ever been.
Yeah, but I think I’ll take 60 years of eating really tasty meats and foods at the risk of slightly increasing my chance of getting cancer and dying at like 65 instead of 85.
But it’s also about quality of life; do you want the last decade to be in increasing pain with challenged mobility or not as bad?
Yeah, I try not to make it my entire diet, but… no pepperoni? Why live?
Everyone who has ever eaten a hot dog will die
studies show that 100% of people who drink water will also die.
I don’t have a problem. I can stop drinking water whenever I want to.
I need to stop oxygen…everyone who has it dies.
See, that’s the addiction talking. Seek help.
It’s easy to quit drinking water. I do it several times a day.
That’s why I only drink Mtn Dew
When?
Yup
Dang, you mean to tell me that animal refuse blended into mush and saturated with salt is bad for us?!
Eh, “refuse” makes sausage sound worse than it is. In the modern world anyplace with a food inspection system will typically see sausage made from cuts of meat that are perfectly edible but don’t meet the grading standards likely to sell on the shelf , or the excess pieces of muscle left over after breaking primal cuts down into smaller pieces. No one wants to buy USDA certified Meh grade steak, or a palm sized wedge of uneven thickness. So they get sent off to make hamburger, sausage, and various canned or commercial meat products that don’t need to be pretty.
Processed meat also includes much more benign seeming foods, like sandwich meat, ground meats, and bacon. We’ve known for a while that eating meat, and more so red meat, is a risk for colon problems. Red meats are more likely to be processed and therefore cheap and salty.
The new thing the study adds is that there isn’t a lower bound. For a lot of things there’s a quantity that isn’t associated with any issues, and it’s only when you go above that limit that the risk goes up.
Refuse? Why do you think processed meat is animal refuse?
“As little as one hot dog a day”, doesn’t really strike me as a great example of a “small” amount of processed meat. I’d generally say I ate a lot of something if I had it literally on a daily basis.
Totally agree on hotdogs, but if someone ate a slice of standard toast for breakfast every day I wouldn’t say they ate a lot of toast.
Point being, I don’t think the frequency can be considered independent of the thing.They maybe could have phrased it better as “consumption of as little as 2 ounces of processed meat, about one hotdog, a day…”.
A hotdog is a relatable unit of measure for an amount of food, but a hotdog a day isn’t normal. A hotdog one day, a deli sandwich the next, and so one though isn’t preposterous.…constantly fails the engineering exam… …constantly eats roast beef…
I love Red Dwarf so much.
Smoke me a (non-processed) kipper, I’ll be back for
cancerbreakfast!
…and what do they say about just plain meat, I wonder? 🤔
Let’s begin by reading the article, and noting this key sentence: "“Habitual consumption of even small amounts of processed meat, sugary drinks, and trans fatty acids is linked to increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes, ischemic heart disease and colorectal cancer,” said lead author of the study, Dr. Demewoz Haile, a research scientist at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle. "
Health effects associated with consumption of processed meat, sugar-sweetened beverages and trans fatty acids: a Burden of Proof study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-025-03775-8#author-information
Abstract
Previous research suggests detrimental health effects associated with consuming processed foods, including processed meats, sugar-sweetened beverages (SSBs) and trans fatty acids (TFAs). However, systematic characterization of the dose–response relationships between these foods and health outcomes is limited. Here, using Burden of Proof meta-regression methods, we evaluated the associations between processed meat, SSBs and TFAs and three chronic diseases: type 2 diabetes, ischemic heart disease (IHD) and colorectal cancer. We conservatively estimated that—relative to zero consumption—consuming processed meat (at 0.6–57 g d−1) was associated with at least an 11% average increase in type 2 diabetes risk and a 7% (at 0.78–55 g d−1) increase in colorectal cancer risk. SSB intake (at 1.5–390 g d−1) was associated with at least an 8% average increase in type 2 diabetes risk and a 2% (at 0–365 g d−1) increase in IHD risk. TFA consumption (at 0.25–2.56% of daily energy intake) was associated with at least a 3% average increase in IHD risk. These associations each received two-star ratings reflecting weak relationships or inconsistent input evidence, highlighting both the need for further research and—given the high burden of these chronic diseases—the merit of continuing to recommend limiting consumption of these foods.
Then I hit a paywall. Anyone got a ladder?
One of us is gonna have to email one of the authors to ask for a copy. I’ve read that they want the public to read their work and that the paywall is just like a default setting.
There is no where safe from fascists and ICE right now so I’m gonna eat all the processed meat I want dammit. If it gets much worse I’m gonna take up smoking and drinking again too, since I’ll definitely fuck up and get exiled or worse for opposing all of this shit. On a related note, are there any good sources for quality FUCK ICE magnets and bumper stickers?
Don’t make their job easier for them. Fuck them! Health is wealth.
The state need not kill those that killing themselves
Don’t make it an easy job for 'em
The killing of kids with £2 chicken and chips
Is a tactic of war, waged on the poor
Can’t save wages on slave wages
And you don’t think fresh fruit with your face on the floor
Nah, you need money for the kids
Rent and light plus food in the fridge
But that last box can be the hardest tick
'Cause scraps will suffice but they might make you sick
As a child I used to chow take out
Twenty-four hours later skin break out
Felt so heavy with it sitting in my belly
Dessert was a sugar coated candy jelly
Fam that’s pig meat. Mashing up the kidney
Make sure no government has to kill me
I was killing myself till I realised danger
Brain, heart, liver and lungs can hit failure
Now season daal and veg with fresh herbs
Cut caffeine because it messed with nerves
Plenty lentils and chickpea curry
20 minute meal for a man in a hurry
That’s real fast food that won’t break the bank
With enough nutrients to fill the tank
Drink water for the body’s natural power
But water from taps can taste sour
Food deserts are designed to starve us
No fresh produce but we’ve got Starbucks
Calories packed in treats to enlarge us
May not see the effects but the heart does
Can’t breathe, can’t sleep, can’t run
Casomorphin wreaks havoc on the lungs
Just like fizzy wreaks havoc on the gums
And my old man said diabetes ain’t fun
Ginger root is good for the youts
Blend it up and share a fresh juice
Burn sage, cleanse the room
Body is a temple, don’t let it be a tomb
The food you choose to consume can damage
Processed meats intestines can’t manage
Cattle farming still killing off the planet
And it tells us everyday that it can’t stand it
Earth getting hotter while the sea levels rise
All because you want burger with those fries
All because you want milkshake with the meal
Then to combat diarrhoea you take pills
What’s the deal? Eat right, stay active
Stay strong 'cause the revolution is real
Never know when a man might have to dash
And a pig can’t kill what a pig can’t catch
It’s more than just eating right, it’s survival
Rasta man tell the youts eat Ital
Daily exercise, fresh air is vital
Whether you short walk, run or take cycle
Meditate to live life and love it
Plus stress increases acid in stomachs
Read and chill to keep the mental covered
And when you find struggle, try rise above it
I find peace in the books on the shelf
Food on the stove while it cooks I can smell
It’s gonna be good by the looks I can tell
And it won’t put my body through hell, well
Well, I want strength like Phelps
Good practises and discipline helps
Not for the six-pack, I do it for myself
'Cause it’s true what they say your health is wealth
Be healthy, be strong, alright
Oh by the way, remember you are a gift to yourself and a gift to your environment
Continue to be that beautiful gift
Share that gift in your food, and all your gastronomic masteryNo no, you’ve got it backwards. Give THEM the processed meat
This is the way.
You do you my man, it’s just that you would definitely make your life much more sufferable if you had given your organism the better sort of fuel
Magnets and stickers aren’t significantly better than thoughts and prayers, but cost more.
YOLO 🤷♀️
Well, shit.
