"But Rachel also has another hobby, one that makes her a bit different from the other moms in her Texas suburb—not that she talks about it with them. Once a month or so, after she and her husband put the kids to bed, Rachel texts her in-laws—who live just down the street—to make sure they’re home and available in the event of an emergency.
“And then, Rachel takes a generous dose of magic mushrooms, or sometimes MDMA, and—there’s really no other way to say this— spends the next several hours tripping balls.”
Cool. Good for them. They got emergency arrangements if needed. How many people who drink alcohol can say that?
Well yeah it’s a thing. It was a thing with our moms too. Our grandmas often preferred the ‘ludes unless they were hippies
Not my mom. She told me she never did anything like that.
Absolutely, she also never had sex.
Idk, this is OP’s mom we’re talking about here…
Why are people applauding this? Is this a good trend? Is everyone saying “Yes, it’s great that Americans are taking more drugs”.
I feel like the reaction should be neutral at best, and more likely strongly negative (because there is a child in the house).
(And yes, getting drunk on alcohol with a child in the house is just as bad.)
How is this a positive thing? I’m honestly struggling to understand. Is the assumption that increased psychedelic drug use will be more than offset by a decrease in alcohol use? Are people interpreting this article as a sign of less stigma around drug use, and they believe a lessened stigma will have social benefits?
Are people applauding this because they see it as the individual standing against society, and they applaud individualism? Are they applauding it because they see it as a form of greater consumer choice? Do they believe recreational drug use is beneficial to the individual?
I know this will attract a deluge of downvotes, but I’m also hoping someone answers.
If only people spent any time actually investigating what was said and not defaulting to pearl clutching because of the propaganda they’ve been fed, we could live in a much better world.
We know people can use alcohol responsibly. And alcohol is the most debilitating, aggression causing and all around harmful substance. In some data, it loses out to hard core opiates, but in most aspects, alcohol is genuinely more risky.
Serotonergic substances, such as MDMA and mushrooms are less harmful than cannabis.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/25/what-is-the-most-dangerous-drug
Serotonergic substances have been shown to have extremely positive effect for mental health when used in a responsible and reasonable way, such as doing them once a month with good preparation. Usually most people trip perhaps once or a couple of times a year, but once a month isn’t “too much”. If it was weekly, then that would be a bit excessive. But remember that with drug abuse issues in terms of other substances, like alcohol, tobacco, meth, opiates, your would have to do them daily.
It’s rather impossible to binge shrooms, lsd or ecstasy. They just stop working so fast. If alcohol built tolerance at the same speed, after a few drinks, you’d need double to feel the same, and after a sixpack, you’d hardly feel anything unless you started drinking straight up booze and even that wouldn’t get you drunk.
As in, you could want to binge shrooms or lsd or mdma once you start, but even if you shove your face into it, 24 hours later you’re just not going to be high. You might be rather confused if you’ve just stayed up binging, as it will have an effect, but it’ll be more sleep deprivation at that point.
I wish I could relay all my experience and knowledge on the subject. I’m absolutely convinced you would agree. But I know how much of the drug war propaganda stands between that understanding and arguing against it. Took me years to accept we need to legalise all drugs after realising we have to legalise cannabis. And that was like 20 years ago. It’s not to increase use. It’s to prevent abuse and take the trade away from criminals. (Taxing the global drug trade would easily cover ending world hunger, for one.)
Here’s a great organisation to have a peek at.
Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies.
Founded in 1986, MAPS is a 501©(3) nonprofit research and educational organization that develops medical, legal, and cultural contexts for people to benefit from the careful uses of psychedelics and marijuana. MAPS previously sponsored the most advanced psychedelic-assisted therapy research in the world and continues to support psychedelic and marijuana research with a focus on the people and places most impacted by trauma.
Hope that answers some of your questions, although, I expect a lot of the viewpoints I have are straight up unacceptable to you for some reason or another.
I said nothing about legality or illegality.
I think I made a lot of other points besides the remark that we need to reform most drug laws.
The other point you made was “psychedelics aren’t necessarily worse than alcohol or cannabis”, and I feel like I already responded to a similar point elsewhere.
Getting drunk (or high) with children in the house is also not good. I would not expect that to be applauded either.
You mentioned “responsible” alcohol use. Getting drunk around your children is not responsible alcohol use.
People who drink responsibly either have a single drink or two and stop before they get intoxicated, or they go out and hire a babysitter, or they send the kids to the grandparents for the night.
(If you are “tripping balls” and unable to drive, you are intoxicated.)
I didn’t say “get drunk” around children. I said use alcohol responsibly. Do you believe one can do that around alcohol, or is everyone who has a glass of wine with dinner an irresponsible parent?
Just like with alcohol, the dosage matters. The mother isn’t “tripping balls” by doing a bit of MDMA or shrooms. That’s just exaggeration by the article. There’s no mention of a dosage, but to “trip balls” on MDMA, you’d need to do quite a bit. Same with shrooms. Several times the normal recreational dose, just like with alcohol.
People who drink responsibly either have a single drink or two and stop before they get intoxicated
But one or two drinks is still intoxication. It might be very mild intoxication, but it is intoxication. You might not believe it, but actually, similarly responsible low dosage recreational use exists with other substances as well. Just because your chosen drug is illegal doesn’t mean you shoot it up into your eyeballs and don’t stop until your whole stash is gone and then go out to prostitute yourself to get some more.
Have you ever had any serotonergic substances, like shrooms, LSD, ecstasy? No? You have no idea how they influence you and how they might or might not impair you? But… I do? And other people do? And science seems to support the things we say about them; people who haven’t used them always fearmonger over them, they’re less harmful and less impairing than alcohol, and still more pleasant. It’s a wholly different effect.
Do you think people who have a prescription for sedatives or antianxiety medications are irresponsible parents? Should they take their children to stay somewhere every time they take an Ambien before they go to bed? Oh wait… then, they’d never sleep in the same place, unless there were other people there as well? Don’t you think it extremely irresponsible to have a sleeping aid before bed… you know, in case of an emergency. Better — just to be safe — take your kids to your in-laws every single night that you might be inclined to think you need a sleeping aid.
I don’t believe you could stand behind something like that in good faith.
And I know that an Ambien impairs a person more than a light recreational dose of LSD or ecstasy or shrooms.
Why the pearl clutching over a child in the house? The person even goes as far as arranging possible cover from the in-laws. Even if they didn’t, it is a child and not a ticking time bomb. Obvious idiots getting blind drunk or tripping balls into the next dimension aside, an experienced tripper in a safe environment (ie their home) would be able to handle themselves fine.
Why don’t they take the child to the in-laws? Waiting for an emergency is too late.
Even if they didn’t, it is a child and not a ticking time bomb.
Children require and deserve a safe and predictable environment populated by responsible adults who can attend to their needs and adequately respond in an emergency.
Quote from the Article:
“After she and her Husband put the kids to bed[…]”
Theres still a sober person in the house.
It’s still not a great situation. The sober person ends up looking after the intoxicated person. In an emergency, the sober person has to end up trying to deal with both the intoxicated person and the kids.
And it’s not good for kids to see their parents being intoxicated (which can happen if the kids wake up). Kids need to feel that their caretakers are capable of looking after them.
I really don’t see why she couldn’t send her kids to the in-laws once a month.
(I also don’t see why she couldn’t just decide to stay sober. I guess her life is just so miserable?)
and adequately respond in an emergency.
And being an experienced tripper myself, I’m sure they’re still capable of adequately responding to their children’s needs. A basic recreational dose of MDMA or LSD would enhance my evening and I wouldn’t be fit to drive a car, but compared to having several drinks, not really impaired. If there was a genuine emergency emergency, I’d still be able to function. Like I could drive a car, but like with when being drunk, I wouldn’t unless it was the only option. Which in this case, it wouldn’t be, seeing as if they needed to drive, the in-laws are there ready for that.
What sort of an emergency do you expect they would be too impaired to handle?
Okay… I’ll give it a go.
As we age, it’s easy to lose touch with something sacred. Certains drugs, in certain settings can remind some people of that. For those people, it can be a way to fend off the embittering nature of the rest of the world. It can put them in touch with that sacredness, reawaken some sense of reverence and awe, and some are able to carry a bit of this back into that into the world.
I don’t partake in drugs or even much alcohol. And I wouldn’t let loose without some sort of backup plan for the safety of my child. But I’m all for people doing what it is that lets reconnect to the sacred.
Personally, I hope it softens our hyper individualism and capitalist values. Hope that gives you an alternative perspective.
Why are “some” people applauding this?
Lots of reasons. First and foremost mushrooms are pretty damn safe compared to doing cocaine, heroin, etc. Let’s face it, people are going to do something. Don’t play it is unnatural either when even animals in nature seek mind altering substances
They are not without risk though as some people with latent schizophrenia can be triggered. I would never suggest doing psychedelics unless you have done them before. Yes, I realize that is a paradox.
How can it be a positive thing?
It is a positive thing if they think it is. That is the whole point and if you don’t think it is positive then don’t do it. If you read the article it has candid statements from people who do it. That is the answer you are not looking for.
I am not sure I get what you are saying about getting drunk around children. I guess you have to be clearer. Is it okay to have just one drink with a child. What about two or three over the course of hours. What about getting blackout drunk. There is obviously a line somewhere there.
Also it is important to note that many of the mushroom infused products being sold are not even illegal. You can buy them at the store. Your whole point about stigma kind of goes out the window considering this.
Frankly, if you want to be critical this feels of marketing under the guise of a human interest story. If I sold mushroom infused products articles like this would definitely help my bottom line
Claiming you will be downvoted is really cringe btw. I don’t typically down vote much but saying garbage like that sure does tempt me.
mushrooms are pretty damn safe compared to doing cocaine, heroin,
Are you saying you think increased mushroom use will lead to a decrease in cocaine and heroin use?
Or is “better than heroin” the standard by which we decide substances should be applauded and encouraged?
Are you saying you think increased mushroom use will lead to a decrease in cocaine and heroin use?
Nice strawmann Argument you got there
Or is “better than heroin” the standard by which we decide substances should be applauded and encouraged?
Heroin is literally as bad as Alcohol(in terms of damage). Shrooms are so goddamn safe, that it is literally impossible to overdose in them. You might have a real fucking bad time but you won’t Die from them. Aside from psychological risks shrooms don’t really do any damage to your body. When you’re ranking them with other drugs they are the safest out of all of them.
Source:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/25/what-is-the-most-dangerous-drug
That’s not what a strawman argument is.
This was at the top when I opened the thread and I’m glad I read it. Anyone who downvotes you is doing it because you are contradicting their biases. Your comment gave me something to think about.
I think the reason everyone is applauding this is because liberals/left-leaning have read enough literature to confirm the dangers of alcohol and other strongly addictive substances. Newer research shows the positive effects of psychedelics but they’re yet unproven as categorically better than other prescription medications.
When lemmings (who are mostly very left leaning and decently educated) see people doing things that can show the positive effects of psychedelics, they applaud it without much critical thought.
Comments like yours not being downvoted to oblivion and then hidden are the reason that Lemmy is still decent. For now
Legitimately I question that this is even newsworthy.
It appears that these women are harming nobody and are partaking of the drug(s) safely and sensibly in a manner that ensures that no one is being significantly endangered. Yes the residual dangers exist and bad trips can happen to pretty much anyone. I don’t feel as if they’re even posing a danger to their children; if this is in fact being done in such a way that the kids are never being exposed to their parents while they’re in an altered mental state due to hallucinogenic intoxication. If it isn’t; yeah; I could see why a local branch of child services might pay them a visit. However, I’m not going to make that negative assumption.
I don’t particularly commend the women, nor the news outlet, for coming out about this though; it is still very much technically illegal by current law. But, I also do agree that the stigma attached to drug use, even when done so responsibly, is in fact ridiculous and stupid in general. However, I don’t see a better way of achieving what that does…so I couldn’t suggest any better alternatives and I don’t support going back to a previous era in Law where drugs that factually are provably dangerous, for some reason, are not regulated. Reasonable and Sensible Regulations on dangerous Drugs are REQUIRED; it’s just that some people have a different definition of ‘Reasonable and Sensible’ which has to be ironed into a proper consensus for society.
Unfortunately some people have no idea women like this actually exist and need to be told that drug use is a part of normal suburban life. Though to be honest I am kind of against the idolisation of suburbs, they are really inefficient, but I digress. Articles like this help break down the stigma around this kind of drug. A stigma that makes little sense as well given their safety profile and effectiveness in treating some illnesses like treatment resistant depression, anxiety, and PTSD.
I don’t particularly commend the women, nor the news outlet, for coming out about this though; it is still very much technically illegal by current law. But, I also do agree that the stigma attached to drug use, even when done so responsibly, is in fact ridiculous and stupid in general. However, I don’t see a better way of achieving what that does…so I couldn’t suggest any better alternatives and I don’t support going back to a previous era in Law where drugs that factually are provably dangerous, for some reason, are not regulated. Reasonable and Sensible Regulations on dangerous Drugs are REQUIRED; it’s just that some people have a different definition of ‘Reasonable and Sensible’ which has to be ironed into a proper consensus for society.
We should start with the most dangerous drug in our society: alcohol.
Oh wait the Americans tried that and it actually made things worse. Shocking.
Drug prohibition doesn’t and has never worked. We also know neither voters nor politicians understand nor follow scientific consensus on drugs. Not popular consensus. Scientific consensus. Very different things unfortunately.
Look up any ranking of drug harms published by scientists. You might honestly be shocked. Things that people consider safe like alcohol normally end up being ranked much higher than other things commonly thought of as dangerous like nicotine or amphetamines. As much as smoking is bad there is way too much focus on it compared to alcohol and some other stuff. I know there are even some people that think of cocaine as being relatively normal and safe because of its overall popularity, yet if you actually look into it it’s not healthy at all.
Legitimately I question that this is even newsworthy.
But, I also do agree that the stigma attached to drug use, even when done so responsibly, is in fact ridiculous and stupid in general
I thought you answered your own question. This article helps remove the taboo.
Rachel should give me a call.
I also volunteer to be Rachel’s trip buddy
Lol this is kind of slang i like being used by news sites. I dont care if its unprofessional, tripping balls is just too good to not say. Def one of my favourite english slangs.
lol reminds me as a kid. We’d always say. It’s hot as balls. One time someone asked me what that meant and I just kinda looked at em. Like well it’s hot. As. Yeah balls…? 😆
Rachel sounds like a fun hang. Kinda like a reverse Karen.
My question is: why?
I’ve tried shrooms but not LSD. It was a weird experience but not unpleasant. I don’t feel any desire to repeat it though.
To me it just seems like something people try once or twice and then move on from.
I’ve done shrooms on many occasions, the experiences can be different based on setting. The most memorable was lying on my back in the mountains overnight with no light pollution watching as I seemed to move through stars/meteor shower while reflecting on my life, where I’ve been, where I’m going. I would do them again, to take a moment of deep introspection, though I think monthly is a bit much.
If you got the message, hang up the phone.
I’ve done lsd a few times and would again. It challenged me in ways that were fun at times and important at others
It still seems pretty negligent even if the inlaws are down the street, should a vagina scented candle get knocked over… And the kid who comes downstairs for a drink of water will not know how to deal with mom “tripping balls”.
People get drunk with their kids at home all the time, not ideal but super common. Hallucinogens don’t make people catatonic or unable to interact. It’s just not that serious. I’m assuming the kids aren’t infants though. Infants need so much care so frequently that you have to be 100% on as much as possible. But I seriously doubt a nursing mother would do this (or at least trip and tell people about it)
Overall people need to lay off of parents unless they’re really harming their kids. I know people afraid to make their kids walk to school because the neighbors will call protective services. It’s ridiculous.
The article says nothing about her husband partaking, so presumably there’s another sober adult present and no risk.
It felt implied (why text the in-laws?) but maybe not?
There may be a medical emergency where the husband needs to take her and leave the kids alone.
Seems sortof like the husband is trip sitting at least some of the time
We trip regularly and I use to work in childcare. This does not sound negligent to me at all.
Mushrooms just aren’t very disabling once you’re familiar with them and measure doses. I’ve ran into and chatted with professional acquaintances while on mushrooms. It’s fine.
It’s done wonders for our relationship and mental health. I don’t think it’s for everyone, but it’s been a huge boon to us.
We trip regularly and I use to work in childcare.
Did you do it at the same time as watching the kids?
Of course not but at work as a primary carer for other people’s kids is a very different scenario that at home with your own kids who are asleep while you have trusted sober adults on standby.
But I’m being told it’s absolutely fine to do. Why is it irresponsible with other people’s kids but not your own?
Assuming she doesn’t take such a large dose that she can’t deal with a knocked over candle.
Also, one partner can stay relatively sober to manage reality.
Assuming she doesn’t take such a large dose that she can’t deal with a knocked over candle.
I guess there’s a lot of flexibility in the phrase “tripping balls for several hours”.
Would you say the same of a parent that gets drunk at night?
Yes.
Right? I would hate to be responsible for a child’s life all the time.
