People who joke about legos haven’t stepped on this bad boy
I’ve seen a few videos on these and the benifits of european plug design. My only gripe with it is the size. I know it would be a pain because everything is already built for the the current standard, but an updated “micro” plug would be a lot better.
In fact, why doesn’t the whole world collaborate on a new plug design that takes the best from both and combines into a 110/220 auto sensing plug. Sadly i don’t see that happening any time soon. It’s much more likely that USB-C continues to gain ground and becomes the defacto DC power standard for consumers.
UK sockets usually have switches on them. There’s no need to unplug things when you’re not using them.
Also, Lego is a collective noun. Saying legos is exactly like saying sheeps.
Boy I bet youre fun at parties
The ladies flock to me for my witty pedantic corrections.
it’s sheeple.
I think the switches are nice but in the modern world you really don’t need to unplug a vast majority of things. Even my $30 120V USA space heater shuts itself off if it tips over or gets too hot. My cell phone charger pulls functionally 0W while idling.
this is something I’ve heard a lot from people in the UK, do UK electronics not have switches on them or something? all electronics I’ve ever seen living in the US have a power switch on them, do you think we unplug our stuff to turn them off?
No, but my point was that there’s no need to unplug something and leave the plug on the floor if there’s a switch.
I didn’t know you people had only one of them.
I have:
- A switch on my appliance
- A switch on each socket of my extension board
- A switch on the wall
- An MCB connected to groups of sockets
- An MCB for the whole house
- A circuit breaker on the nearby distribution station
- A circuit breaker in the power plant
- A generator start/stop system in the power plant
All the switches. All the joy. No need for plugs left on the floor.
Lots of devices have status lights and other circuutry that still gets powered when “off”. Its not a huge difference, but its nice to skip the unnecessary draw.
But what about when you need to plug your hair dryer in and need to remove a lamps plug and it ends up on the floor and then you get a knock at the door and its your friend and you go out and forget all about it until you get home and completely fuck your own feet
Why not drop the plug at the wall instead of in the middle of the floor where you walk, or get a multisocket? £3.99 at Argos for a little one.
All these questions and more will be asked on the floor, clutching ones foot
Thanks for the chuckle.
You clearly haven’t stepped on a IC chip
100 pins right in the foot
I have, but it was a foot-safe surface mount package
Yeah, but now you can calculate pi to 2000 decimal places.
No proprietary stuff inside my foot, please.
Give me an Open Source RISC V chip and I’ll step on it.
What a weird sex toy, what shapes are British anuses?!
Boris Johnson is practically leftist compared to Trump.
Not sure why that’s relevant. His political position Vs Trump isn’t exclusively what makes him an ass, but Boris managed to achieve Brexit levels of damage to the UK.
Boris managed to achieve Brexit levels of damage to the UK.
Last time I checked history, there was a referendum and the British voters insisted on brexit.
30,000 or so unnecessary deaths because he delayed lockdown.
Partied breaking his own rules while the Queen mourned her husband in isolation, not allowed to have anyone sat next to her at the funeral.
Like trump, a born liar and bulshitter.
Best plug+receptor design in the world for electrical safety.
Worst plug design in the world for bottom of foot safety.
There’s no UK standard for three-phase and high amperage sockets or plugs. In fact, UK sockets don’t support 16A three-phase at all, so if you have higher power needs (for example for EV charging) you’re left with having to install a dedicated wall box that uses an entirely different connector than the 3-pin UK plug, BS 1363.
Given this incompatibility, how can you argue that UK sockets are better, for instance, than SN 441011?
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
I did notably just say that the plug is the best in the world for electrical safety. I’ve made no claims of it’s usefulness or convenience outside of that.
I am also unaware of any country on the planet that uses the same plug/connector for general purpose household devices and 3 phase power. The number you provided, SN441011, also just leads to relatively generic household plug that doesn’t seem fit suited for multi phase use either, so not sure what you’re trying to say. I’ve also rarely seen places outside of industrial environments that have multiphase outlets, except in America, which has split phase power, and uses the voltage boost by going phase to phase instead of phase to ground. There’ll you’ll do often find 240V split phase outlets for high power appliances like shop heaters, electric clothes driers or EVSE
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
It’s a minor nuisance yeah sure, but it also has the nice advantage that there’s no need to fully mould plastic around it. UK plugs are pretty much universally openable, meaning you can repair them yourself if a fuse dies, or one of the wires comes lose. It’s also really easy, and literally all you need is a single screw driver, to swap a working plug over onto a cable who’s plug has broken.
But even so, it’s again not a safety issue so not exactly relevant to my poing.
Impossible to plug small plug into big power. I see no problems.
Also best for staying in sockets but not getting stuck
Best plug+receptor design in the world for electrical safety.
That’s debatable. The plug safety features only exist because of the UK’s uniquely substandard wiring.
No it isn’t. It’s debatable if the safety features are still necessary with modern wiring and electric code imporovments, but the features are objectively there, and they objectively make the plugs safer.
And the design of these features wasn’t because of “substandard” wiring. It is because the UK used to use ring circuits in old houses, which are unsuitable to be protected by central breaker boards with breakers for each room, necessitating fuses in the plugs. That doesn’t make the system any less safe. As long as a fuse is present, and the circuits are adequately sized, where precisely on the circuit a fuse is located is irrelevant.
Also, the fuse inside the plug provides an utterly unique advantage that no other country has: The fuse can be used to protect the external wire from over current. Centralised fuses are exclusively designed to prevent over current on the main, internal circuit, they don’t give a crap what happens on the other side of an outlet. A central fuse protecting a 16A circuit will do nothing to stop you from pulling 15Amps through a 3 amp cable. A fuse inside the plug, appropriately sized for those 3 Amps, will in fact protect the cable itself. This is particularly useful for extension cords. Other countries without fused plugs need to either just flat out mandate ALL extension and multiplug cords be capable of safely handling the maximum current of a household circuit (e.g. Germany) OR just ignore that rather major safety hazard entirely and just kinda hope that nothing bad happens (e.g. USA) (if you’ve ever wondered, that’s specifically why chaining extension cords together in the US is considered dangerous)
The USA approach to this is to mandate a comical number of outlets everywhere (to prevent extension cord usage), mandate a large number of individual circuits (especially for things that draw a large amount of power), and more recently some combo of AFCI/GFCI/CAFCI breakers (to provide some level of sensing things going wrong and shutting off power).
The stats are not great for the USA in terms of number of fires. I haven’t done deep research. From personal experience, most homes built after modern US electrical code was fleshed out are generally fine. Modern homes (or ones upgraded to modern code) seem very safe - the “smart” breakers tend to actually work.
My anecdote here is that my relatively small hometown area (15,000 people, largely built up between 1860-1940) still has frequent fires relating to electrical and heating systems and the current city I live in (95,000 people mostly built up starting in ~1960) has very few fires ever. I spend 2 weeks a year around Christmas back in my hometown. 3 of the last 7 years had a structure loss fire while I was there. In the same period of time there have been 2 structure loss fires in my current city total.
And Europe doesn’t have old houses with the same difficulty in wiring?
So you’re not saying it’s because the wiring is substandard, but because it’s ring circuits, which are not up to the same standard as if they used a breaker panel.
Isn’t that the same thing?
No, because the rest of the world isn’t America.
Those ring circuits WERE up to UK standard, and perfectly safe when they were constructed, and nowadays are either still covered by the standard, or grandfathered in, meaning at minimum in existing buildings, they still in fact are up to UK standard.
The reason other counties don’t use ring circuits isn’t because they’re less safe or inherently worse in any way, which the term “substandard” clearly implies. It’s because they’re less convenient. It’s easier and more convenient to make and use, and easier in terms of individual steps, to make safe seperate fused circuits instead of a ring circuit.
The reason the UK used ring circuits was because they use much less copper conduit, and given the massive
coppereverything shortage in the UK during and after WWII, the convenience of modern circuits simply wasn’t worth it.The reason other counties don’t use ring circuits isn’t because they’re less safe or inherently worse in any way, which the term “substandard” clearly implies.
Yes. That is the reason.
If a ring circuit suffers a break in the live wire anywhere along its length, it fails dangerous. It will appear to be functioning properly right up until the wiring in the wall catches fire.
The only way that ring circuits could be considered somewhat safe is if they were clearly labeled and regularly tested for continuity.
And how exactly doe the same exact thing not ally to a branch Circuit suffering a break?
When the live wire in a branch circuit breaks, the only path for current is severed. Anything prior to the fault continues to function as designed, anything past the fault does not function at all.
In a ring circuit, there are two paths. When the live wire is severed, only one path is broken. The other path continues to function, but it is now able to draw current greater than what the wire is capable of carrying. Everything on both sides of the fault will continue to function, but not as designed.
The standards the UK adopted pass higher voltages and higher currents per household circuit than pretty much anywhere else. They adopted standards that allow them to use use less wiring, less copper to provide the same energy. They can plug in many space heaters on one circuit, where two or three would blow a breaker on a US circuit.
That higher voltage and higher current makes their household circuits inherently more dangerous than household circuits outside the UK. A fault in a UK circuit passes a lot more energy than a similar fault elsewhere, before tripping a current-limiting device. The exact same fault in a UK circuit is far more dangerous than in a circuit pretty much anywhere else in the world. The standards for household wiring in the rest of the world are a lot more restrictive than the standards adopted in the UK.
UK plugs on Japanese appliance in Japanese houses (for example) are overkill. The safety provided by the UK plugs is built into the Japanese breaker panel and wiring. Putting the UK plug/socket into a Japanese circuit provides no significant additional safety benefit. The Japanese plug/socket on a UK circuit would be extraordinarily dangerous.
The higher voltage has nothing whatsoever to do with ring circuits. The UK runs on the same 220-240V AC as all of mainland Europe. And Africa. And most of mainland Asia. And South America. And Oceania. And most of the middle east. So not quite “higher than any other country”
Also those two claims are diametrically opposed to each other. Unless UK people use over twice the amount of electricity than Americans, the higher voltage will lead to LOWER total current. That’s quite literally the specific and sole motivating factor behind choosing a higher grid voltage.
And the current a conductor can pass has nothing whatsoever to do with it’s safety. You could have 50 amps blowing through a circuit, if it’s at 12V you can still touch it without getting a shock. Your car battery is capable of peak currents of several HUNDRED amps, and those are considered safe enough to just carry around by random people with bare hands.
Again, the amount of current passed depends only on the voltage, which again, is the same in the UK as all of mainland Europe (and most of the rest of the world except America and Japan), and has been since the early 20th century, so I’ve no idea what you’re trying to go on about there.
And lastly, no it isn’t. For one, the child safety shutters on all UK outlets are certainly not contained in a Japanese breaker panel. Neither are the fuses in the plug, which protect the external wiring. And nor is the insulation on the lower legs of the contacts contained in a breaker panel. The Japanese plugs are basically the same as American. You can literally get an electric shock if you hold them wrong whilst unplugging. There’s exposed live contacts from when you start unplugging until the prongs break their connection to the outlet.
Basically everything you said is demonstrably false. I’ve rarely seen someone be this confident and this incorrect about something.
Again, the amount of current passed depends only on the voltage
Electrically, current depends on voltage and resistance/impedance. In practice, (and most importantly to this discussion), current draw actually depends primarily on the characteristics of the current limiting devices such as breakers, fuses, etc. Breakers on UK household circuits are designed to allow considerably more power than comparable breakers around the world.
This is the primary factor I am talking about.
Neither are the fuses in the plug, which protect the external wiring.
Those fuses are not needed in Japanese (or North American, or most other) plugs. We don’t need to protect the “external wiring” separately from the household wiring: the household circuit breaker is rated lower than the “external wiring”. Drawing a direct short on the “external wiring” in a UK circuit is not sufficient to trip the UK circuit breaker in the UK distribution panel; they need a secondary current limiter (a fuse) to provide that function.
We don’t need fuses in our plugs, specifically because our household circuit breakers are designed to trip well before your fuses would blow. (We do include fuses in any appliance or device with wiring not rated to full current.)
And lastly, no it isn’t. For one, the child safety shutters on all UK outlets are certainly not contained in a Japanese breaker panel.
The function provided by those shutters is achieved in the Japanese wiring by lower voltage, narrow holes in receptacles (allowable because they don’t need as large a contact to safely carry the lower rated current), a flared base on plugs, protective accessories for outlets in risky locations, and whole-house AFCI/GFCI.
UK’s uniquely substandard wiring.
Care to elaborate on this? Imo it does sounds like a win if that’s the case.
Post-war reconstruction, they had a massive copper shortage. The wiring standards they adopted allowed for using as little copper as possible. That meant fewer, high-amperage circuits, rather than many low-amperage circuits. They used “ring circuit” topology instead of “branch circuits” to allow them to use undersized wiring.
Basically, all the shortcuts they took in their household wiring introduce considerably greater risks than exist elsewhere, including North America. Their household wiring is overloaded relative to most of the rest of the world. They mitigated the risks of their household wiring with stricter standards on their appliance wiring. Which is why they need a plug for their phone charger comparable to the plugs we use on a welder.
It’s a good plug A damn good plug. It’s just complete overkill for electric systems outside of the UK.
That makes sense, but imo for those country that follow UK standard with 220v/240v power everywhere in the house, it better be overkill than not. But then i guess that’s why EU also have this two pin plug for low power application that come with partially insulated pin, and won’t hurt your feet when step on. Best of both world!
It’s not just the voltage It’s also the allowable current per circuit. UK circuits allow much higher power (wattage) than single household circuits in the rest of the world. That’s why they need those big-ass plugs on each of their appliances.
Sounds like the problem is people leaving plugs lying on the ground? Otherwise known as user error.
Or what they called it: Skill Issue.
You sound like ElectroBOOM.
Australia’s is way better lmao
I won’t go that far
I see you have never encountered a goat head.
Yo, what’s wrong with your goats?
The caltrop family? Really?
Chicken or egg?!
I don’t really fancy standing on either.
Oh look that’s something ninjas spread on the road when they run.
i have lost two tires to goatsheads in the last month and i hate it
You just brought back memories of my siblings and I walking around outside barefoot to the point these things penetrated our shoes more easily than our feet.
In rural southern Utah these things are literally everywhere. If you go out with cheap foam flip-flops, the entire bottom of the shoe will embedded with dozens of these seconds after you start walking around lol
Kind of oddly satisfying to pull them out of the soles of shoes tbf
I’ve always heard them called sand spurs, and they’re the devil. Nothing in nature needs to be that sharp, ffs.
At least chestnuts have the decency to be really localized and large, despite being spikey balls of evil. These little fuckers are miniature, everywhere, and can hide in carpet for a solid six months before you notice them the one time you decide to go barefoot.
I’m so glad we don’t have these where I live.
I think you’re thinking of sandburs. Which I’m pretty sure are different, but also fucking nasty plants. They end up in our poor dogs’ paws late summer/early fall. If I could eliminate any plant. That one.
Lovely, I’m glad there’s more than one of these hellplants.
I’m glad they’ve never managed to puncture my sneakers while hiking, because god knows I’ve had enough embedded in my soles when I check.
I have lost many bike tires to these guys over the years.
Do you just casually have those lying around your house? What about sharp glass? Or acid pools? Or tigers?
They come into the house on your clothes, your shoes, my dog’s fur. Yes they end up lying around the house. The number of times I have stepped on one barefoot in the middle of the night is far too high.
But why do you leave power cords lying around?
Keeps me on my toes.
And off of them if you fuck up, I’d imagine.
in the UK we don’t need conceal carry, those plugs are easily available everywhere and can be used as a Morningstar
I would be mildly annoyed at 110v in easy reach with metal with out an isolation switch.
Having switched outlets wouldn’t make US plugs any safer, at least not in any meaningful way.
The individual switches on UK outlets don’t really add significantly to safety, they’re mostly just a convenience feature, because for an electrical plug/outlet to even be considered safe in the first place, it has to be always safe, whether it’s powered or not. You can’t rely on people switching off unused outlets instead of doing actual safety design.
The main factors that make US plugs less safe than UK ones is the potential for exposed metal contacts with a closed connection to the outlet, the lack of internal fuse and the lack of polarisation, and, particularly in combination with the first point, the comparatively weak grip strength and protruding design that make it easy for a plug to become (partially) unplugged by accident.
One feature of UK plugs I really like is the built in warding of the live/neutral slots. The ground prong is longer to allow for the mechanism to unlock the hot slot when inserted. It’s essentially a built in childproofing.
Jup, that’s a really good feature. You can get aftermarket child shutters for EU style plugs as well, but they require you to twist the plug before inserting, making them kinda inconvenient, and they have to be specifically installed by parents. Though I don’t think that’s the worst thing in the world. After all, we don’t make any of our other products or home designs toddler safe by default. It’s generally regarded as the parents responsibility to ensure their home is child proof before they get a child.
But the UK version of just having it in every outlet as a hidden feature that you wouldn’t even notice if you don’t know it’s there is definitely the best approach.
(Though it does make low form factor UK plugs almost impossible, because every plug must have a ground prong, even if there’s no actual safety need to have one)
Perhaps it could be revised by adding two unearthed Europlug round-pin sockets below the broad pins, though within a recess shaped like the thin European plugs to prevent the connection of earthed plugs, and declaring Europlug to be a British standard for unearthed mains, for use with devices not requiring earthing. Not sure if the geometry would work out, though.
It’s possible to that of course, but I doubt it’s worth it. It also couldn’t be adapted as is, because fuses in each plug are always required t for UK plugs, they aren’t for EU plugs. And if you have to adapt a narrow EU plug to hold a replacable fuse would eat into size savings, require adapting the standard and require entirely new production lines for the modified plugs, so almost certainly simply not worth it.
Yeah, I think brits and other europeans can generally agree on american plugs
So how does it work in the US then? Is there a law that everything needs to be isolated very well, no metal shells allowed or people just getting electrocuted from time to time
They are referencing the lack of isolation on the prongs for US plugs. If a US plug isn’t fully inserted, it’s possible for both of the two prongs to form electrical connections with the outlet, whilst not yet being fully inserted.
This means a small part of the prongs which are now at 110V potential to each other is exposed, and could potentially be touched by a child, or cause a short circuit if an object gets into the gap.
So yeah, the electrical code in the US for household plugs is just straight unsafe.
You can see the way to do it properly in this post: Notice how the two L+N prongs only have exposed metal at the very tip, this, if they’re inserted deep enough to create contact, it’s not possible for any exposed metal to still protrude from the outlet.
:) only the strong survive.
An actual answer: you very quickly learn to pull in a way that prevents your fingers from slipping onto the prongs, or you just pull the cord to remove things from outlets. That creates its own long term problems, but most people don’t really give a shit because the US is built off cheap plastic shit that you simply replace when it breaks.
That being said, I’ve received like 5 or 6 good hits of the 110v wake up due to the eccentricities of the US plug. It hurts like a bitch, but probably won’t kill you if you don’t have a pace maker and aren’t grabbing something grounded with the other hand.
We also only use GFCI in the bathroom and kitchen and don’t use RCD breakers. It’s honestly astonishing that the US electrical system doesn’t kill more people.
An actual answer: you very quickly learn to pull in a way that prevents your fingers from slipping onto the prongs
…Do you, though? Because this thread is the first time I’ve considered this as a problem- which I agree it could be better designed in general but especially for child safety purposes- and I’ve been around American plugs my entire life. I’ve never been shocked, unless we’re counting the time I grabbed an electric fence because I was an idiot teenager being goaded by other idiot teenagers.
You just… grab the plug by the plug part? It doesn’t really require any kind of special technique to not touch the metal bits. Maybe I just have big hands? Realistically, I probably couldn’t fit between the wall and the plug while it was still inserted enough to be live.
I also have big hands, but some plug designs are so low profile that if they are plugged into a particularly tight receptacle, you can’t get good leverage to remove them. You get the plug partially out, then try to reposition your grip to pull it the rest of the way or you grab it too far forward and your fingers slip while squeezing, and BAM, zapped.
Power strips are the biggest culprit for this one, since your fingers can end up on the seam between cord and strip and more easily slip under when unplugging.
A GFCI is the same thing as an RCD, they’re just different terms. They both have the same function: detecting leakage current, and isolating the electrical connection as soon as it does.
I am aware, but GFCI is the common term in the US, especially for outlets. RCD is used most other places. I was trying to keep the terminology consistent to what would be expected regionally.
just pull the cord to remove things from outlets.
For those playing along at home: please do not do this.
Never considered that Europeans don’t know the wonderful sensation of 110v. It can vary from a slight tingle (it’s not even tingle, but I can’t describe it) to a “holy shit” moment that throws you back, depending on how and where you touched it and how much current flows. The great thing about A/C is the cycle, unlike a DC current which can lock your muscles and keep you from letting go.
I’ve taken a 240VAC hit a few times. That will definitely wake you up.
Interestingly, the only times it has happened have been when I’ve been abusing the wiring. Never via a plug etc.
Many European electricians - and plenty of non-electrician idiots like me - will have had 240vac shocks, which are probably similar just a bit more nippy and will get worse faster than 110vac. I think the human body is also a weird electrical resistor that goes down with voltage.
I’d not describe it as ‘wonderful’ or a ‘slight tingle’. It’s a pretty fierce bite. shocking is the word I’d use.
I’d think if I’d had a few and got used to it, or if i knew it was coming maybe i’d downplay that a bit. But i’ve tightened up my unplugging process now (dayglow tape) to be sure i’ve unplugged the right plug. It was enough to know I don’t want another unexpected 240vac zap.
I’d be pretty east to wrap 2 loops and 1 . . . no , leave that to electroboom.
Is it normal for there to be no cord attached to these? That would stop them from facing this way on the floor
No, the cable comes out perpendicular to the pins (ie parallel to the wall).
Which pretty much guarantees foot-pain orientationIs this another safety factor, i.e. you can’t easily rip appliances out by accident?
It’s so the live wire disconnects first if you pull the cable out - it’s the shortest, then neutral, then ground. Whoever designed this really thought of everything.
Everything except my foot
Don’t unplug them, use the socket switch, and don’t leave them where you might walk if you do.
Few things make me proud to be British, but the ingenious design of our plug sockets is one of them. TBF though we do need those safety features. Mains power here is 240v as opposed to 120v like a lot of countries. One mistake with a live wire would be the last one you’d ever make.
The majority of Europe survives.
Although their sockets are recessed.Europe uses 16A household circuits. UK uses 30A. It would be unsafe to use a European appliance on a UK circuit with an unfused plug.
I thought that’s achieved by the different wiring lengths inside and the blue wire having to loop up and round to go into the top of the neutral leg.
A little bit of that im sure but L plugs are much better at being plugged in behind furniture
I doubt it.
Tripping over a cable is as likely to damage the socket as it is to rip the cable out of the plug.
Any appliance that increases risk by being unplugged should probably not be using a consumer connection…I think the 3 pin layout caused a lot of headaches, and the integrated fuse required a user-servicable plug.
So it would have to be a split-shell design of some type, where the appliance cable would have to be cable-gripped to the same part as the plug/socket pins.
Thus, a bottom-entry (heh) cable grip and a removable back plate that can only be unscrewed when it’s unplugged.
This was all in a time of bakelite. Plastic wasn’t flexible.But no, I think tripping over an early bakelite g-type (I think it’s officially a g-type) plug cable would likely shatter the plug and pull the pins out of the socket… If it didn’t also damage the socket.
Far more likely to move the appliance than damage the plug. I’ve got a couple of spare old bakelite plugs in my garage, and that shit is strong.
The type G was designed when things were designed to do their jobs. Any pain inflicted by user error was considered a learning opportunity.
The cord coming out the bottom means the plug can’t pull out. Combined with the big, chunky plug and pins, means the cable will likely fail first if pulled. It will also fail at the live core first, leaving a safe plug in the wall.
But yes, the foot pain is… impressive. It’s just blunt enough to not generally penetrate the skin, but it can happen.
That’s from a power brick that came with attachments for different regions.
I’ve handled normal plugs as well and they tend to orient themselves prongs up too.
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It needs an unearthed version without the shutter-opening pin, for things like low-power electronic devices with figure-8 mains sockets, phone chargers and such.
Of course, some BS1363-stan will inevitably show up to argue that as this is a crucial safety feature, unearthed connections should be illegal, much like the Australians who argue that bike helmets should be mandatory in Amsterdam.
we like our plug sockets to be able to take more weight than a sheet of paper
brit in the US- it is astounding to me that sometimes a plug can just fall out of the wall on its own
What, really?
Yeah, it’s not meant to happen (obvi) but especially if it has wear/high usage it can.
also leaving exposed live contacts
