This is it, full stop.
Dogs are individuals and should be treated as such.
I helped raise and home two litters of Staffordshire pups, we kept a rigorous list of the owners that we interviewed and checked the homes once a year to monitor the dogs progression. We made the owners sign a contract stating that if the living standards weren’t up to snuff, we could reclaim the dogs. I worked with a fellow who raised Staffies for 30 years. In two litters, we had around a dozen well trained, friendly huggable porkchops. Two litters that had no recorded bites past a few months old (puppys nibble but can be trained), and showed no aggression with other animals. All those pups lived to old age, and passed in happy homes. I’ve also met too many pitbulls that were beyond any help i had to offer. Damaged dogs damaged by poor parenting.
I know my story is anecdotal, and i don’t expect to change minds here, but i cant stand the outrage against such lovable dorks when something like the chihuahua exists.
Dogs aren’t individuals. They’re animals. You don’t need a pitbull. There are plenty of other beautiful breeds like Retrievers/Laboradors or Border collies, etc.
With pitbulls you have to train them specifically not to fight to lower the chances. They shouldn’t be available to own to the general public.
Dogs are animals, and no amount of training can make it certain they will not attack, because, as you say, they are individuals. Therefore a well-trained Pitbull remains more dangerous than a well-trained [insert literally any other dog breed here].
I absolutely love dogs, including Pitbulls. I despair at what humans have done with selective breeding, by giving Pugs a lifetime of health problems, Pitbulls a greater chance of being euthanised, greyhounds a brain the size of a pea etc., etc. The right thing to do is to vote with our feet and stop the demand for breeds that shouldn’t exist. The real villains here are the People creating pure bred pits for profit.
Tuesday that 30-year-old (…) was found dead Monday night at a home near Newington from an apparent dog attack. (…) He says an autopsy revealed Wilcox died as a result of injuries received from the attack.
Investigators say Wilcox was familiar with the pets at that residence and had handled them safely on numerous occasions in the past. None of the dogs in the home had any known history of viciousness or aggression
Pitbulls are a breed designed to kill.
You can have a Border Collie and it will be shepherding sheep on a screen, or dust motes on the floor, because it’s in their DNA.
Killing and aggression are in the DNA of Pitbulls.
Or - and hear me out - we could castrate and render infertile every person who suggests the elimination of an entire breed so that they can’t spread their idiocy to their children.
Responsibility includes accounting for possible aggressive behavior :/
If you’re responsible for a chainsaw, you know to keep it oiled. You know to use it only in the correct environment, and you don’t have it anywhere near children.
So yes, you can responsibly own a pitbull. Responsibility is being responsible for a subject; its well being, its actions, and the consequences of its existence.
And yes, responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years has done. That is literally what responsibility is charged with.
If it was about weeding out the fight drive of the dogs, a lot of things could be done, without the need to drive the breed to extinction. Inside the pit bull gene pool there are two lines: the fighting dogs and the bait dogs. The last ones are those that display the lowest drive for fighting and aggression. There is nothing wrong with these animals except their lack of will to fight other dogs and this trait makes these animals less desirable to people breeding these dogs that know they can make good money by keeping the fight drive of the breed. These are the people that often show off dogs hanging from ropes off the ground, growling and twisting on it, to showcase the bite force of the animals.
Increase the frequency of theses individuals in breeding pools, weed out the naturally more feisty, and you can modify the race or any race very fast. Pugs and Yorkshire Terriers area two examples that come to mind of breeds that suffered radical changes on very short time spans because of aesthetic trends. No obstacle on doing the same thing to improve a breed for good reasons instead of shallow ones.
There are a good number of breeds out in the world much more dangerous than the Pit Bull. The Tosa Inu, which was specifically bred to be a fighting dog, the Presa Canario, also bred for fighting, the Rodesian Ridgeback, and many others. In the 90’s, Dobermans had the dirtiest reputation for being very dangerous. Nowadays, not so much.
So, your statement is misinformed.
note to mods: don’t like what I wrote, just give me a permanent ban and be done with.
First I like that you acknowledge there is a fight drive.
Second, so you’re discussing selective breeding to get it out, which is entirely different than people thinking you can coddle it out. You missed the entire conversation.
[…] you can’t overcome 200 years of artificial selection.
Is this you?
The way you put your argument, you seem to state there is no possible way to solve the issues this breed tends to show more propensity to exhibit. Selective breeding is one way and the best way to remove from the breed undesirable traits, as a root cause. But this does not mean it is the only one and extensive, structured, conscious training and conditioning, along with correct housing, can and will drastically reduce the risk of bad events. This breed is composed of individuals, which is often, conveniently, overlooked.
Pit Bulls are not exclusive to bad episodes with horrendous outcomes. Many other breeds are listed as controlled or banned, from country to country.
What Pit Bulls have against them that many have correctly stated is the tendency to attract the worst kind of humans.
My aunt has lived with two pitbulls for almost a decade now. Raised two small children in the same home. Nothing but sweethearts. Dogs are individuals, just like people. Just like having another person around your baby, you need to be responsible with any dog breed.
What’s the margin? Where do we draw the line between breeds that are okay to allow to reproduce and which aren’t? Pitbulls are statistically very safe, as all dogs are, when treated and trained well. If we banned everything with similar levels of risk of injury or death as pitbulls, we’d have to ban a LOT. Let’s start with guns, cars, and hell, why not smoking and drinking for legal guardians of children, too. In-ground swimming pools can go, and let’s revamp electrical outlets.
Obviously, it’s a sliding scale of propensity, probability, and likelihood, as you said, but pitbulls are much lower on that scale. Just as with everything else on that list, the risk of harm to others, especially children, falls on the responsibility of the owner. This isn’t to say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” as obviously guns enable easily killing many people quickly, but rather to contrast the realistic risk to family and community. Pitbulls have been excessively demonized for their relative risk. I can’t take anyone calling for pitbull bans seriously unless they believe in authoritatively banning all the other aspects of our lives that pose similar levels of risk to ourselves and others.
If we could rely on every member of any sizable group of people to all reach even the lowest bar of decency, the world would be a very different place. Any solution that relies on the idea of “if everyone just does x” is not a real solution, as much as I’d like it to be.
Pitbulls have a reputation for being dangerous tough guy dogs, so “tough guys” get pitbulls and proceed to not treat them well, this give pitbulls the reputation of being dangerous tough guy dogs.
I live in Copenhagen, however, and I’ve seen some very nicely treated pitbulls, even one that was part of a family. They can be so gentle.
Guns don’t get old and have a bad day killing their owner. Pitbulls do unfortunately. I’ve seen good ones and bad ones but when they are hurting or just grumpy old farts they can go off. The difference between a shitzu and and pitbull doing that is the pitbull is powerful and the shitzu is annoying.
It doesn’t matter about the mauling. What is more likely to kill you? A pitbull or a Chihuahua. If a Chihuahua tried to maul an average healthy adult, the healthy adult could probably fight it off quite quickly with minimal small bite injuries. You can’t say the same about a pitbull.
Less. Chihuahuas can be aggressive, bitey little shits without proper training. Most people I’ve seen with Chihuahuas don’t train them. It’s just a small little dog, what harm can it do?
Yes, it is and people are assholes.
Yes, pit bull bites are more dangerous. No, that doesn’t mean they should all be euthanized. They need proper training and that’s it.
They should all be euthanised. There’s no good reason to own a pitbull. They were literally bred for fighting and it’s in their instincts.
This is it, full stop. Dogs are individuals and should be treated as such.
I helped raise and home two litters of Staffordshire pups, we kept a rigorous list of the owners that we interviewed and checked the homes once a year to monitor the dogs progression. We made the owners sign a contract stating that if the living standards weren’t up to snuff, we could reclaim the dogs. I worked with a fellow who raised Staffies for 30 years. In two litters, we had around a dozen well trained, friendly huggable porkchops. Two litters that had no recorded bites past a few months old (puppys nibble but can be trained), and showed no aggression with other animals. All those pups lived to old age, and passed in happy homes. I’ve also met too many pitbulls that were beyond any help i had to offer. Damaged dogs damaged by poor parenting.
I know my story is anecdotal, and i don’t expect to change minds here, but i cant stand the outrage against such lovable dorks when something like the chihuahua exists.
Dogs aren’t individuals. They’re animals. You don’t need a pitbull. There are plenty of other beautiful breeds like Retrievers/Laboradors or Border collies, etc.
With pitbulls you have to train them specifically not to fight to lower the chances. They shouldn’t be available to own to the general public.
Dogs are animals, and no amount of training can make it certain they will not attack, because, as you say, they are individuals. Therefore a well-trained Pitbull remains more dangerous than a well-trained [insert literally any other dog breed here].
I absolutely love dogs, including Pitbulls. I despair at what humans have done with selective breeding, by giving Pugs a lifetime of health problems, Pitbulls a greater chance of being euthanised, greyhounds a brain the size of a pea etc., etc. The right thing to do is to vote with our feet and stop the demand for breeds that shouldn’t exist. The real villains here are the People creating pure bred pits for profit.
https://eu.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2016/08/04/pitbull-kills-owners-girlfriend-sheriff-says/15719416007/
Pitbulls are a breed designed to kill.
You can have a Border Collie and it will be shepherding sheep on a screen, or dust motes on the floor, because it’s in their DNA.
Killing and aggression are in the DNA of Pitbulls.
Stop being weird.
You’re missing the blindingly obvious solution that should be taken: spay and neuter them so that no new ones are bred.
Or - and hear me out - we could castrate and render infertile every person who suggests the elimination of an entire breed so that they can’t spread their idiocy to their children.
Nah, we should give police orders to shoot every pitbull on sight.
Hol’ up, there’s some sort of incongruity here that I can’t quite put my finger on…
You should be embarrassed to support eugenics.
r/whooooosh
Could you explain why you think they’re not serious?
I suspect they’re half-serious but both ironic and hyperbolic. Just seems the most likely.
Maybe? I hear shit like this for real all the time, even here.
Or, ya know, people could be responsible pet owners.
No amount of responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years.
Responsibility includes accounting for possible aggressive behavior :/ If you’re responsible for a chainsaw, you know to keep it oiled. You know to use it only in the correct environment, and you don’t have it anywhere near children.
So yes, you can responsibly own a pitbull. Responsibility is being responsible for a subject; its well being, its actions, and the consequences of its existence.
And yes, responsibility can overcome what 200 years of artificial selection at a rate of every 2 years has done. That is literally what responsibility is charged with.
You’re trying to twist and turn here. Accounting for? You can’t overcome it. I say again, you can’t overcome 200 years of artificial selection.
Yes, you can.
If it was about weeding out the fight drive of the dogs, a lot of things could be done, without the need to drive the breed to extinction. Inside the pit bull gene pool there are two lines: the fighting dogs and the bait dogs. The last ones are those that display the lowest drive for fighting and aggression. There is nothing wrong with these animals except their lack of will to fight other dogs and this trait makes these animals less desirable to people breeding these dogs that know they can make good money by keeping the fight drive of the breed. These are the people that often show off dogs hanging from ropes off the ground, growling and twisting on it, to showcase the bite force of the animals.
Increase the frequency of theses individuals in breeding pools, weed out the naturally more feisty, and you can modify the race or any race very fast. Pugs and Yorkshire Terriers area two examples that come to mind of breeds that suffered radical changes on very short time spans because of aesthetic trends. No obstacle on doing the same thing to improve a breed for good reasons instead of shallow ones.
There are a good number of breeds out in the world much more dangerous than the Pit Bull. The Tosa Inu, which was specifically bred to be a fighting dog, the Presa Canario, also bred for fighting, the Rodesian Ridgeback, and many others. In the 90’s, Dobermans had the dirtiest reputation for being very dangerous. Nowadays, not so much.
So, your statement is misinformed.
note to mods: don’t like what I wrote, just give me a permanent ban and be done with.
Top misinformation post of the month contender.
First I like that you acknowledge there is a fight drive.
Second, so you’re discussing selective breeding to get it out, which is entirely different than people thinking you can coddle it out. You missed the entire conversation.
Is this you?
The way you put your argument, you seem to state there is no possible way to solve the issues this breed tends to show more propensity to exhibit. Selective breeding is one way and the best way to remove from the breed undesirable traits, as a root cause. But this does not mean it is the only one and extensive, structured, conscious training and conditioning, along with correct housing, can and will drastically reduce the risk of bad events. This breed is composed of individuals, which is often, conveniently, overlooked.
Pit Bulls are not exclusive to bad episodes with horrendous outcomes. Many other breeds are listed as controlled or banned, from country to country.
What Pit Bulls have against them that many have correctly stated is the tendency to attract the worst kind of humans.
My aunt has lived with two pitbulls for almost a decade now. Raised two small children in the same home. Nothing but sweethearts. Dogs are individuals, just like people. Just like having another person around your baby, you need to be responsible with any dog breed.
It’s about propensity, probability, likelihood, etc.
What’s the margin? Where do we draw the line between breeds that are okay to allow to reproduce and which aren’t? Pitbulls are statistically very safe, as all dogs are, when treated and trained well. If we banned everything with similar levels of risk of injury or death as pitbulls, we’d have to ban a LOT. Let’s start with guns, cars, and hell, why not smoking and drinking for legal guardians of children, too. In-ground swimming pools can go, and let’s revamp electrical outlets.
Obviously, it’s a sliding scale of propensity, probability, and likelihood, as you said, but pitbulls are much lower on that scale. Just as with everything else on that list, the risk of harm to others, especially children, falls on the responsibility of the owner. This isn’t to say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” as obviously guns enable easily killing many people quickly, but rather to contrast the realistic risk to family and community. Pitbulls have been excessively demonized for their relative risk. I can’t take anyone calling for pitbull bans seriously unless they believe in authoritatively banning all the other aspects of our lives that pose similar levels of risk to ourselves and others.
If we could rely on every member of any sizable group of people to all reach even the lowest bar of decency, the world would be a very different place. Any solution that relies on the idea of “if everyone just does x” is not a real solution, as much as I’d like it to be.
Unfortunately there is a feedback loop somewhere.
Pitbulls have a reputation for being dangerous tough guy dogs, so “tough guys” get pitbulls and proceed to not treat them well, this give pitbulls the reputation of being dangerous tough guy dogs.
I live in Copenhagen, however, and I’ve seen some very nicely treated pitbulls, even one that was part of a family. They can be so gentle.
That’s exactly how everyone talks about their pitbull until it rips their child to pieces.
Hej fra København og jeg tror du har ret
So can guns.
Guns are weapons. Not lifeforms.
Guns don’t get old and have a bad day killing their owner. Pitbulls do unfortunately. I’ve seen good ones and bad ones but when they are hurting or just grumpy old farts they can go off. The difference between a shitzu and and pitbull doing that is the pitbull is powerful and the shitzu is annoying.
Counterpoint, hipoints
“heres anecdotal evidence to support my worldview”
Searching “pitbull kills baby” gets way too mant results for my liking
Now hypothetically, if every breed except Chihuahuas was banned, and those tough guys were forced to buy those and not train them.
Do you think there would be more, less or equal amount of dog mauling?
It doesn’t matter about the mauling. What is more likely to kill you? A pitbull or a Chihuahua. If a Chihuahua tried to maul an average healthy adult, the healthy adult could probably fight it off quite quickly with minimal small bite injuries. You can’t say the same about a pitbull.
Less. Chihuahuas can be aggressive, bitey little shits without proper training. Most people I’ve seen with Chihuahuas don’t train them. It’s just a small little dog, what harm can it do?