I mean, if whole EU countries can do it, so can you.
What?! I’m still working on my spreadsheet comparing 7 and 8!
I might be a little behind on Windows releases, because this is the first time I’ve heard of a version 40320
I’ve been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
… The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn’t work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it… Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
No bullshit.
Just works.
Truly the year of the Linux desktop.
I’m guessing the cheap laptop was running Windows? You didn’t mention, it sounds at first like you’re saying you were using Linux on it.
What ads were everywhere? Why did it “take 2 hours to get to the desktop” - you mean, that’s how long it took to install or something?
People here so full of shit. I just reimaged my lenovo t570 with windows 11 took less then 10mins to install. Another 5 to remove all the bs built in software like solitaire Cortana etc and then another 10-15 to apply all windows updates. Bam done.
Takes a lot more to fully deshittify it, though. I’ve been down that road. So much registry diving, so many third party apps, strongarming uninstallations of bloatware through brute force, and just all around weeks of work.
When the screenshot shit was announced the first time, I just got tired of looking for workarounds to disable or remove Microsoft’s active attempts of policing, spying, and triple-dip profiting off it’s paying customers.
Install the IoT version, that comes without any of the bloat and works just fine. Not even the Microsoft store is bundled in.
Where does one purchase a single license for windows 10 iot lts? Isn’t that only for volume purchases by large enterprises?
I have heard about the IoT version. I’d have to look more into it, but I doubt I’m going back now that I’ve learned so much about Linux. I can troubleshoot most of Arch without touching the docs or asking online now, so it really defeats the purpose of switching back.
I also enjoy putting in a little effort to get things working. That’s the thing about Linux. Most people that daily drive it get a dopamine release from tinkering with it and fixing things, and I’m one of those people.
I know there has been a big “its for everyone” push these days, but its really not. So I’m glad the IoT version exists for those that want or need it.
Yeah Linux is great, no doubt. I’ve been using Xubuntu since forever, never really touched Arch, but fundamentally if you know your way around one system, you’ll manage another.
Still, there are a bunch of applications that I must run under Windows, so it’s good to have the no frills version available for that.
You can even skip step 2 by using one of the IoT editions (either Win10 or Win11) which come minus the prepackaged bloatware.
Microsoft is mostly interested in making everything bullshit for home users. If you convince them you’re an enterprise customer, preferably by running up the old Jolly Roger, suddenly your life is a lot easier.
It’s not all quite as rosy.
Yes, Linux is much more capable now than it was 10 years ago and it’s much more capable of being used as a main system. I myself have been using Linux as my main system for a few years now.
But it’s also a fact that a lot of stuff might not work (even if it works for someone else) and that some things are still more difficult than they should be.
For example, on my laptop cannot wake from sleep since kernel 6.11. I have manually sourced a 6.10 from an older version of my distro and keep holding it back, so that I can use my laptop as a laptop. For someone without technical skill, this would mean that their laptop just can’t sleep any more. Hibernate also doesn’t work.
Another example is that LibreOffice still makes a lot of formatting mistakes when it has to open word documents. And sure, everyone could just switch to odf, but it’s not quite as easy to make everyone else switch to odf. It makes it really hard to use LibreOffice in any kind of professional environment. Wouldn’t want to make a powerpoint presentation that then looks like shit when it’s played on a different PC.
Lastly, Nvidia sucks, but it’s also close to the only option for laptops with dGPUs. When I look for laptops with dGPUs available in my area on a price comparison platform, I find 760 laptops with Nvidia GPUs and only 3 with AMD, all of which are priced at least €500 more than comparable Nvidia devices. So if you want to go for a gaming laptop, Nvidia is pretty much the only option, and under Linux it really sucks. Steam games generally work ok for me, but trying to use Heroic Launcher to play anything from my gigantic library of free Epic/Amazon/GoG games, about 10% of the games I tried actually work. And even with those that work, my laptop sometimes just decides that a slide show with 3 FPS is good enough. That stays even after reboots and resets, and after a few days it returns to normal. Only to go back to slideshow mode a few days later.
If you just use your laptop to run a browser, I can recommend Linux 100%.
If you want to do anything else and don’t have any technical skills and/or don’t want to spend hours fixing things that should just work, I can’t fully recommend it.
I am a developer and Linux is my native environment in production systems. I wanted to use Linux on my laptop but sleeping / waking up never worked well enough. It could not switch from integrated video card to a discrete one ending up always using the discrete one which drained the battery in 30 minutes. All in all, it was usable but the details didn’t work so I gave up. That was years ago and eversince no customer really allows Linux…
Sleep/hibernate has been a pretty big problem for a while. As for the gpu, have you checked out NixOS? There’s ways to enforce your integrated card to handle everything and change states for certain apps to the discreet card.
It takes a bit to learn, but nixlang is pretty simple. I’ve heard it referred to as “JSON with functions”. It also has the largest package repository of any OS and is atomic, so its hard as hell to break. You can even make separate, containerized dev environments with flakes.
No, no its not. I get it lemmy has a hard on for Linux and libreoffice. But unfortunately its just not gonna happen windows is king. If you like or not its the main dog on the market and enterprises are not going to switch.
I think at this point Android is the king of operating systems in terms of what the majority of consumer devices run. Perhaps the path forward is people plugging their phone into a dock and being presented with a more productive interface.
With a couple of governments making the switch I honestly think that things are changing to some degree. Will windows die and be forgotten by everyone overnight? Of course not. But I think there’s a real chance their piece of the pie will start to shrink noticeably. Chrome OS is dominating in schools for a few years now and Microsoft is seemingly trying hard to alienate the current windows users.
I’d actually argue enterprise is more likely for people to switch, there’s a lot of Linux sysadmins out there, and there’s a lot of Linux in enterprise environments, and of course especially servers.
Unless you have specific requirements for specific software that runs only on Windows, getting away from Microsoft can be a pretty tempting prospect. Even if there are people who fear change and the idea of change like the plague.
What the hell are you on about. This is not a “everyone or no one” thing. You can consider it. I have, I switched. I still use mac at work but I absolutely can switch at the homefront. Some companies use Linux, most use Windows. And they absolutely can consider switching.
Microsoft already lost enterprise servers to Linux, and has lost significant ground over the years in consumer PCs to ChromeOS, MacOS, and Linux. Hell, the top PC gaming handheld is a Linux offering. That was an unheard of idea just five years ago.
While I agree that business laptops will continue to be dominated by Windows for awhile, the market shifts we see everywhere have downstream effects on business laptops too. When you find yourself having to train more and more people on how to use Windows than you did in the past, the value argument for Windows on your employee’s laptops quickly comes into question.
I haven’t used Windows at work in years for anything, not for cloud hosting, not for on-prem, not for employee machines etc etc. until the cost-cutters came in and forced Teams and other Microsoft crap to squeeze the market during inflation. The company is just waiting to be killed off now.
GF recently wanted to buy Ms office because she had a nice looking CV template for it that would not work well in LibreOffice. So I spent some hours making a good one without Ms crap, just so they would not get anymore money.
Pretty sure the template would work fine with OnlyOffice.
I just rebuilt mine and can confirm that most of those resume template builders utilize a lot of word doc “hacks” to format everything, and loading and LibreOffice breaks it.
Somehow, windows 11 is even MORE spyware than 10!
Now with AI! So Windows can use your processing power to record and analyze every use of your computer, and report back useful findings to MS. What data is sent back? Who knows? You certainly won’t be told what ‘core telemetry’ is required at any point in time.
You certainly won’t be told what ‘core telemetry’ is required at any point in time.
Except the Diagnostics Data Viewer has been a thing for a long time and tells you exactly what data is sent back as telemetry. Now if you don’t believe it that another topic.
at least I haven’t seen anyone prove it sends all data of your machine
Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
Can’t wait for the “The end of Windows 11 is approaching…” article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Windows 12, with AI even moreso integrated.
Nah, there’ll be a new boogeyman by then.
The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
I really need to stop putting it off and install Linux on my PC and laptops
I dual booth Win11 and Fedora Desk 42. It feels gross starting windows but there are 2, TWO! Apps that don’t have Linux version that I still need.
When Linux wizards figure out a way to use win apps without the intimidating complexity of installing Wine or virtualization, more people will switch.
intimidating complexity of installing Wine
I would give that a shot. The full guide is install ‘wine’ and ‘winetricks’ the same way you install any other software you use. Then in winetricks, select ‘default prefix’, then ‘run arbitrary executable’, and point it to your .exe installer. After that, you just open the program like any other program on your system.
You generally don’t need to do more than that and might let you forgo ever dual booting again.
Haven’t booted windows in over a month now. If I want to play pubg or bf1, thats about the only reason I need windows. And I do a lot of gaming, just not aaa multi-player. But I am enjoying computing again just like when I was younger and computers were interesting and fun and not corpo ad stations on your machine.
I’m between living locations and can’t carry my desktop around.
So I grabbed an old laptop and put Linux mint on it. It’s been near perfect. Extremely smooth experience.
It detected my printer and auto installed. I installed steam and played Terraria without issue. Small performance problem but I don’t have a GPU. Even works good with my docking station.
My only complaint is the audio device doesn’t switch automatically when I dock/undock.
I’d recommend making a USB and boot into it for a test drive.
Awesome, thanks for the insight. I was actually looking at Linux Mint myself. I need around 4Gb on a USB to boot it, correct?
That might do it. I don’t own anything smaller than 16 GB sticks. I used Rufus on windows to make my stick.
Rufus is great and I still keep a copy around, but I haven’t gone back since I found Ventoy. You just run Ventoy on your stick, and then drag and drop any and all bootable ISOs into it. When you boot it, you get a list of all the ISOs to work with.
The only caveat is that you absolutely have to eject the USB, or else Ventoy probably will corrupt. That’s a small price to pay to have Arch, Mint, Fedora, NixOS, and Win11 all on one OS ISO toolkit drive, plus I always eject my drives as a rule of thumb. Then all I have to do is update them every couple months.
Yeah I should switch to Ventoy.
Yes, exactly.
(Kinda unrelated side note: Nobody around me is getting that all these apps are STUPID and MAKES YOU THE PRODUCT. Just why are they critisizing without even trying them?)
How many laptops do you own lol?
I end up with all the “broken” laptops my family replaces after they buy new ones.
I’ve got like 9 laptops. Active ones are my Linux one, work one (windows 11) and my wife’s school one (windows 11). We both have win 10 desktops still.
Families exist. I’m the “IT guy” for 3 people using laptops
They are all my personal laptops from different parts of my past, that I just never threw away when I upgraded
If you keep forgetting them for another ~15-25 more years they might have value in the retro space.
Shadow retirement fund
That’s reasonable; I just wouldn’t have called my wife’s laptop my laptop I guess. It was either that or there was probably an interesting story behind it.
2, though they are both quite old
I’ve had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it’s “end of life” don’t mean shit to me. It’ll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don’t get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn’t patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It’s not manual hacking anymore, it’s bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you’re in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you’re still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don’t use unpatched Windows.
Nat is not a security feature.
Just use ipv6
I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
Yeah, we managed to recreate that in a lab. Those old OS’s are super vulnerable.
This is what 0patch is for!
Mint was my first Linux OS, and it’s been really nice.
Not my first, but the one I landed on after years. It’s just so good.
I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
Just look up windows related cves. There’s like 10 new exploits almost every month or so. Sure, not all of them will be super critical, but as time goes on they will stack up. I would not want to risk it, but you do you.
Consider running the LTSC version. It gets extended support.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, “activated”… would it continue to automatically receive updates?
I have to assume so since other versions that have been “activated” the same way do. Real big shout out to you-know-who, btw. They make Microsoft software viable at all.
I’ve been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029. An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
ESU also offers one year of support for non-enterprise users for $30.
is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year?
You mean aside from all the reasons not to use Windows that applied even before deprecation? 'Cause there are a fuck-ton of those.
Unironically, yes. I was already aware of those and take them into account
Installed Linux Mint a few months ago and have been dual booting. Hardly use Windows at all now.
Linux is exactly what an OS should be.
I always find it odd that posts like this get any downvotes at all. Like, are people really that in love with Windows and or Microsoft?
I downvoted it.
For starters I’ve seen this exact post a few times over the past 3 months in this community.
Secondly, the comments go exactly the same in these threads:
- “linux can do everything, no faults at all, windows sucks”
- “but I use windows for x and y and linux can’t do it”
- “how dare you insult linux, you should not be doing x and y, just do it with this app (which is completely inferior)”
Next, windows does everything I want it to do, I disabled and uninstalled everything I didn’t want easily through settings & group policy, and it hasn’t bothered me since.
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it’s been posted for the 1000th time. It’s not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don’t care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
Not caring is why these corporations have the power they do.
It’s because we’ve seen this post 1000 times
and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn’t clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on https://endof10.org/ tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I’m not sure how you can improve on that.
Because theyre eithet vauge, blatant lies, or not something people care about:
No New Hardware, No Licensing Costs
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh. Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11. Also the terminology is very enterprise focused and objectively some distros (ex REHL) are paid.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about. In addition if you use Linux exactly like Windows with Chrome, Whatsapp, Discord and other non privacy respecting apps you’re not improving your privacy by much.
Good For The Planet
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven. For any meaningful change you need societal change from the top (especially corporations and rich people).
Community & Professional Support
Online Linux forums and chats especially for new people can be extremely overwhelming. Especially when a Windows user comes in and asks why something isnt exactly like Windows. Also once again movements like this is why people dont like the Linux community.
Better User Control
Most new Linux users not only wont use them but especially in KDE software will actively be overwhelmed by the amount of options and menus. Additionally what this critically leaves out is the fact that more advanced customization requires more skill and experience the more advanced it is. There is a clear skill difference from installing a widget in KDE Plasma to compling and installing a custom kernel.
Now lets talk about the things they should have mentioned:
- Less commercial software: adobe especially but most professional grade editing software for both video and photo does not support Linux (yes I know Davinchi resolve technically does but the Linux version is so awful you might as well not use it)
- Linux is not Windows or MacOS: Linux does its own thing, sometimes this is good sometimes bad sometimes its highly debatable (and Linux users will debate it). Because of that if you expect to use Linux exactly like Windows you’ll get confused and frustrated.
- Package managers: Almost every major DE has a graphical package manager frontend, this is a good thing and should be talked about.
- Desktop Environments: Show what they look like, KDE Plasma and Gnome. It should be explained their differnces and who they’re made for.
- Distros: Explain a few of the most common distros and who they’re made for. Debian is the most stable but gets few updates, OpenSuse tumbleweed is bleeding edge, Fedora gets updates once every few months, Arch is unstable and not reccomended for beginners, Pop_OS is great for gaming (see ProtonDB for compatibility)
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh.
Many people are also not willing to buy new hardware. I have several friends where each PC purchase is a massive hit on their budget that requires other things to be sacrificed. And one does pay for a Windows key every time they buy a Windows PC. SIs who sell PCs with Windows as optional offer the Linux PCs for cheaper since you don’t have to pay the Windows license fee.
Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11.
Depends on the PC, some of them just will not go to 11, in which case you are talking about spending hundreds of dollars to go from Win 10 to Win 11, but $0 to go from Win 10 to Linux.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about.
Privacy is exactly what got me and one of my other friends to switch. Many, many people don’t like being spied on. And taking reasonable steps to reduce it is very much so within our control.
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven.
Not buying something new and using what you have demonstrably helps. There is no world in which throwing away a perfectly good PC just to manufacture and transport another is somehow better for carbon emissions. Microsoft should not be rewarded for creating so much unnecessary ewaste by encouraging people to go out and buy another Windows PC.
It’s because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
GNU! GNU!
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Perhaps if you ran Linux you’d be less crankyyyyy
later edit : I hope this message was interpreted for the tongue in cheek that it was
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That’s not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
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Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people’s lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
Putting Bill Gates’ dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. I’ll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
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Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
It’s getting downvoted because it’s not realistic.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it’s been great. I haven’t booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I’m at the point now where I’m transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I’m done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro’s today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It’s just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren’t familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
Why is that? What’s the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I’m pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn’t switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it’d work with my GPU.
my main gripe with Ubuntu right now is the way they are forcing snaps into my system under the covers. if i wanted to install a snap, i would be using
snap installinstead ofapt install. forcing a snap install when i use apt install is just total fuckery. fortunately i only have to use ubuntu at work; home is fedora and almaHm, yeah that is definitely a weird thing to do, I’m using nobara (fedora) and it has the app center for snap and flatpost for flatpaks plus dnf for the package manager.
You just hit both of my points,
- Newer hardware has compatibility issues due to Ubuntu’s slower update cycle
2.ubuntu doesn’t do anything particularly better than any other distro, the marketing pitch normally ends up being “we’re Linux, and we’ve done it a while” because there isn’t any feature that makes it stand out so they advertise on their stability which isn’t that much more pronounced in comparison to a fedora or debian based distro.
What’s the problem with ubuntu?
In general I wouldn’t say it has a problem, it does what it says it will do, it’s just that it’s distinct features are quickly becoming the standard or obsolete.
Fair enough. Personally my hardware isn’t that new; the GPU is 3-4 years old at this point, the rest of the PC is ~5 years old so you would think even the latest LTS which is only a year or two old would support it. shrug
But yeah I’m liking nobara’s rapid update cycle so far, though I haven’t tried to change GPU drivers with it yet, so I suppose I will reserve a tiny amount of judgement until I have to do that. ;)
Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they’re well known, but really aren’t the best options out there anymore.
Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I’m using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven’t tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
