- cross-posted to:
- nintendo@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- nintendo@lemmy.world
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I really appreciate iFixit and how they help bring the discussion of repairability to the forefront.
Not surprised, given it’s Nintendo. My Switch Lite has seen very little use since I got my Steam Deck, tho.
I mean yeah, I wouldn’t expect otherwise. Nobody hates their fans more than Nintendo does.
Not surprising. Nintendo is turning into the Apple of the video game world.
Even Apple makes more repairable hardware.
Part of the difficulty is that Nintendo have hitsquads that will blow your city if you even look sideways at one of the screw.
What’s the appeal of the switch for when PC handhelds exist ? I just don’t get it why you would buy this unless you had children. Nintendo Games are good but they’re really not that good either.
Battery life and weight. That’s what keeps me from getting a pc handheld. Although the switch 2 is so big I don’t know if that holds true anymore
There are PC handhelds that do old emulated games pretty well with good battery life. Sorta like a modern version of a DS or PSP.
Switch 2 battery life also isn’t fantastic.
I have children, like their first party titles, and dislike piracy. I also have a PC handheld that gets more use than the Switch, and I like both.
From my friend, the main advantage the switch have is the UI for games is being design for handheld from the get go, so big, readable font and icon is by default already there and is made to fit. PC game tend to made for either a 24inch or so monitor or big tv for couch gaming, games that doesn’t have UI accessibility option on a handheld PC is unplayable for a lot of people.
Also that damn controller can be split so coop is so accessible. Not to mention that first party games.
Friends with Switchs to play Smash Bros and Mario Party. Occasional Nintendo game but everything else PC. It’s lighter than almost every PC handheld. The Ayaneo Air 1S is lighter but has a 5.5" display
I have a PC handheld but they’re all too heavy in my opinion. The holy grail to me is a Steam Deck that’s about the same weight as a Switch 2 or lighter. 7" display
People like playing Nintendo original games. Mario games, Zelda games, etc.
The only way to legally play those is on the switch.
Yes, even non children play those games.
You can legally play them on an ROG Ally or other Pc handheld . It is not illegal to emulate a game that you own.
But I get that it’s just that I don’t think Nintendo games warrant buying an entire system anymore. If their consoles had more third party support maybe, but I just don’t see the value at the current price of the console.
It is not illegal to emulate a game that you own.
In a lot of place it is illegal to circumvent technical protection measures, which is technically required for almost anything starting from NES era. Making it impossible to “legally” rip your own games (yes, even in places where there IS a tax to allow private copy of content you bought). So the only way you can do that is by downloading it, where there is no “legal” way to distribute it in the first place, so “legally” you can’t download it either.
I’m not defending the practice, I’m saying that if you’re going the “legal” defense, you’re going to have a bad time if it gets attention. Fortunately, suing every single gamer on earth is not an attractive prospect.
In those place it’s usually sharing which is illegal, downloading is fine as long as you already own the media.
And where would you download from, that is seen as legal sharing of someone else’s IP?
The closest you could get is by locating the ROM file in some PC remakes, assuming there’s no “protection” on them.
Again, playing around the “legal” way to do things. In reality, it’s different.
Mario. Zelda. Metroid. For a time the occasional Splatoon. Maybe a Wario once in a while too. Some Pikmin. Even the built-in (paid) list of emulator games are attractive.
Also, you severely underestimate the convenience factor for a lot of people. Yeah, I have a Steam Deck, and 95% of the time, it’s a completely seamless experience. With consoles, it’s 100% of the time. People want a “I turn it on, I start a game”, not a “I turn it on, I might be able to start a game, and sometimes it needs a bit of fiddling, not much, but, more than zero. And sure, I could have this or that other thing by going there and running that, you know, sometimes”.
with consoles, it’s 100% of the time
Several Switch 1 games are facing issues on Switch 2, including broken textures, crashes and weird behavior. This whole “consoles are 100%!” idea has been dead since the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 generation.
People buying the console for the games that are on that console, not generations before, are 100% fine.
Beside, it’s not something you have to fiddle with to get it work. Either a patch come, or you’re on your own.
not generations before
If by “Generations” you mean the literal previous generation that was advertised as backwards compatible and where many of the games won’t receive specific patches precisely because running natively and better was one of the key features of the new console… Sure, I guess.
My Switch Lite is far more comfortable for me to play with than my Steam Deck. I know there are people who say that the Steam Deck is more comfortable and I believe them, but I get tired holding something big and heavy.
I implore people to watch the teardown guide itself, which is way more nuanced than the clickbaity The Verge article.
I’m not a fan of the use of glue in the joycon sides and the fact that the color strips under the controllers are hiding screws. The bigger complaint is the battery glue, especially because you can imagine aftermarket parts with bigger capacity could be a thing here. I definitely wouldn’t open this thing unless it has a problem.
Some components are still modular, which is nice. I can’t imagine the sticks not having changed design is great, but it’s entirely possible they’re way more durable, which the teardown acknowledges. Keep in mind that, while all controllers can drift, most controllers don’t fail that way. It’s possible to build this type of stick without widespread issues. Time will tell, though.
The switch 2 gives out complete apple vibes. It’s repairability is pretty horrid after watching the teardown guide.
Controllers will fail sooner or later and will have to be replaced. Here it will end up replacing the whole stick just due to glueing small parts of the controller.
Battery will also fail sooner than later. The whole thing yells planned absolesence…
It absolutely does not. Nintendo hardware is built like a freight truck. The teardown guide references the JerryRigEverything “durability test” and I am pretty sure unless you use it to bash someone’s head in this thing will last (and even then).
What it reeks of is Nintendo wanting to make things cheap and sell you multiple of them. Which they do. My launch Switch 1 lasted until I got a Lite and then an Oled and I expect this one will do pretty much the same. That doesn’t mean their joycon won’t need fixing or replacing (and I did have to open and mod my Lite, which wasn’t easy).
I think Nintendo hasn’t adjusted its industrial design to modern repairability concerns yet, which is a very Nintendo thing (and definitely not the same as Apple artificially holding down the repair ecosystem to itself artificially). I like neither option, but I’d take Nintendo’s approach over Apple’s any day. They absolutely need to comply with modern right to repair regulations, though, and that will mean doing more than they’re currently doing.
What it reeks of is Nintendo wanting to make things cheap and sell you multiple of them
That’s the “apple like” planned obsolesence part I was refering to. Think about airpods for example.
The teardown doesn’t touch on part serialization, although the ability to brick your device if they “feel like it” is on PAR with Apple.
Although I’m not sure we should be arguing about which of the two is shittier when both are already deep in non compliance of “modern right to repair regulations (lmao)”
No, big differences at play here. Nintendo won’t plan obsolescence, they will give you a base version at launch (multiple, if they can, since they’re handheld devices and a single family may conceivably want a couple) and then they will iterate on the form factor with a cheaper, slimmer alternative and a bigger, premium alternative. None of those will stop working or break at any point, though. They don’t care about them being replaced. In fact, they prefer if they aren’t, given they make a cut of the software, too.
They are planned to stack on each other. Sell you multiples for multiple users. Apple can’t do that trick, because everybody already owns a phone and the software is backwards compatible and interoperable, so they need to push you to replacement hardware. Nintendo’s on a different business.
The remote bricking is not planned obsolescence, it’s Nintendo’s draconian opinion that they own every part of the hardware and the software fundamentally, so emulation, user modding and jailbreaking are crimes against humanity. They are wrong, but they will continue to enforce it aggressively even beyond what is legally established. This is because it goes fundamentally counter to their hardware design, which relies on cheap-but-robust devices you can give to kids that are built with imaginatively repurposed older tech. They see enthusiasts improving on their price-optimal design as a threat and will send ninjas to stab you if you disagree.
I disagree, but there are degrees of separation here. Nintendo still needs to be forced to provide replacement parts, specs and so forth, though.
If you design a product to be intentionally difficult to repair, using subpar parts, is it not planned obsolescence? I really don’t get what you are about there. Unless you require some sort of an internal clock to force brick the device to be considered planned?
Everything else is correct and I agree.
It’s not planned obsolescence if your device is meant to last for decades. You could argue about the joycon if they had done that on purpose, but given that they ended up having to replace a bunch of them it seems pretty likely that their business model is to sell you four pairs to play with friends, not to keep reselling you more as they break.
Nintendo’s business is not based on the product becoming worse artificially to upsell you on a replacement. Their model is to keep making incremental replacements and then drop a generational upgrade every decade or so. That’s not how planned obsolescence works. You don’t get artificial performance degradation, deliberately fragile parts or artifical restrictions to repair via signed components. People can (and many do) repair Nintendo hardware on third party repair services with third party replacement parts, and from what iFixIt is saying that doesn’t seem to have changed.
Which is not to say Nintendo put ANY thought into repairability here. They clearly expect you to buy a Switch 2 and keep it until you buy a Switch 2 Lite. This thing is very new and that may yet change in both directions. But so far all I see here is the same old “we built this to be cheap and durable”, which is fundamentally not Apple’s “you’ll buy one of these every two years and if it breaks you will come to us for a replacement and like it” approach.
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I owned a Switch 1, and it certainly was the Nintendo console I touched up the most. I replaced the back panel once before I got a Lite and then an OLED.
I will say given how much I took that thing on the road and the beatings it took I never found the issues unreasonable and I only ever had to fix cosmetic damage (joycons aside). I’ve seen Switches get a TON of usage, too.
It’s not Nintendo’s most rugged console, but it’s certainly not a “fragile little thing” as I would define it.
Let me put it this way, I’d much rather fix a broken Steam Deck, but I was way less worried about breaking a Switch.
joycons aside
It didn’t break and need repair, except for all the times it broke and needed repair.
No, the main unit didn’t break and need repair beyond cosmetic scuffs. The joycons cycled through the console’s lifetime, which is also true of my Xbox (had an Elite controller die on me, that one hurt) and the PS4 (I don’t think I have a single DS4 left without a broken usb port).
Accessories are accessories, but the console still works to this day.
All the more reason for me not to purchase it.
After the initial excitement I think the Switch 2 is gonna bomb. Offers too little for too much.
Maybe if it was 349 or 399… but 499 is wild
Just yesterday I spent 3 hours playing MK8D on my PC. Cozy on my bed and a controller + a remote keyboard.
Felt like the real deal.Edit: Why the downvotes? Is emulation so frowned upon here?
The guy doing the teardown recommended you wait until a third party company makes a drift proof module to replace the same as last version joystick decoders
I wonder if Nintendo will ever embrace repairability like some phone companies have
I guess there’s more competition in phones than in devices that can run Mario Cart
If you consider how hostile they are with everything else, I highly doubt it. Nintendo never again
Hope the drift issue is fixed. Ran into the issue with two of mine. The paper under the joystick hack didn’t work and one of the brand new replacement joysticks I installed isn’t responsive. 🙄
Spoiler alert: it’s not. Same joysticks as last time.
Are you fucking kidding? They didn’t switch to Hall effect?
Idiots will buy it no matter what, may as well use the cheap stuff.
It’s the same joystick design. As the video says that doesn’t mean it will have the same issues as frequently, but it does mean it can have the same issues. The question will be at what rate.
Given the coverage I have very low hopes that we will get a good idea of that from the press. Instead I expect the first Switch 2 joycon to drift will be put on an auction sale for every clickbait article to parade in front of people with rotten tomatoes at the ready. Still, it will matter if it’s one in two or one in a million.
They could have easily fixed it with hall effect sticks. That is a proven and inexpensive solution, but Nintendo prefers to sell more joycons and create waste, it’s that simple.
It’s kind of wild, especially given how much they must have lost in that lawsuit requiring them to repair joy-cons free of charge
It’s a known and proven shit solution. Have any of you ever actually used hall effect sensor joysticks? The centering is worse, the polling rate is far worse, they use a ton more power (already a limited resource in the individual joycons) and most of all they get absolutely screwed by electromagnetic interference… Interference like, say, magnets holding the joycons on.
Ifixit is kind of full of shit here- the joysticks are the “same” only in that it’s using the same general design as every other non-hall effect sensor joystick that’s ever been used and most of those didn’t have problems with drift.
It’s not the same part as the original joycons, so the issue could be fixed- from what the switch welcome tour was saying, it seems pretty likely in fact.
I use hall effect on the daily and have had none of the issues you’re discussing. I suppose time will tell, but I much prefer hall effect.
Probably depends entirely on what games you play, and how sensitive you are, but hall effects feel like trash and destroy the joycon battery life. I tried playing Celeste with hall effects and wooooow was it bad. Basically unplayable past the early chapters.
It’s not.
Hall effect sticks probably would have increased the price, and then people would complain about how greedy Nintendo is even more than they do now.
It’s always the same story. Whatever they do, it’s not good enough or too expensive or whatever. In the end, the thing will be sold out nonetheless.
It’s not, and the joycons are even HARDER to repair due to a piece of plastic glued over a screw on the inside…
Thanks to 3d printing I have litres of isopropyl. What sucks is you probably want to replace the glue since it’s there to protect against liquids, and Nintendo don’t care to provide a seal kit
You also need to remove stickers to get at the screws
Also you need a security screwdriver (three blade) for those screws
There are no replacement stickers, we wait for iFixit to provide guidance on adhesives
Congrats it’s worse! Harder to get to :)
Haha when they did that blog post to change the switch from 8/10 to 4/10 saying they don’t normally do that but wanted to make sure you could compare the 2 properly against the original, I thought they were making space for the 2 to be above the original, not that they were going to mark it as worse 😅
Just don’t break it smh.
you forgot the /s
“smh” serves the same purpose here.
Oh good idea I hadn’t thought of that
I honestly don’t care how difficult it is, only if it’s possible, if it’s cost-effective, and if there are any fucking corporate shenanigans that intentionally make it harder.
Ease of repair and cost effectiveness are literally the same thing.
They’re literally not LOL.
If they glue in the battery it doesn’t cost me anything extra to remove it.
Also, can you please share your invention of this magical battery glue that actually removes cleanly with no fire risk and goes back cleanly to Nintendo and Apple? It’s cool that you’ve figured out how to do that even though these hardware manufacturers haven’t.
Your time has no value? Can you do my laundry for me, then?
Every minute of my day does not have a monetary value, no. And if your does, I pity you.
Not all value is monetary, although it’s interesting that you default to assuming that.
I don’t care about the difficulty
Nintendo better not have made it difficult
uh
I didn’t say that, you just made it up so I’m not sure what your point is.
I honestly don’t care how difficult it is,
only if (…) there are any fucking corporate shenanigans that intentionally make it harder.
Verbatim quote ya doofus
I’m well aware of what I said 2 hours ago, thank you. Is there a point you’d like to make?
Also the personal insults are not warranted.
The point is it is harder because they wanted to make it harder. What one could call “corporate shenanigans”
Well that sucks but I still don’t understand why I’m being quoted.
I honestly don’t care how difficult it is, only if it’s possible
Can you think in the relationship of the two variables?
Bruh just likes a challenge.
…wat
The more difficult it is to repair something, the less possible it becomes to repair it.
Damn-near anything is possible to repair with the right training and equipment but there is a very wide spectrum between what an average person can do with tools they can easily pick up at any hardware store for cheap and a little common sense and some YouTube videos to guide them, and repairs that require specialist knowledge and equipment.
When something is made more difficult to repair, it slips further into that specialist end of the spectrum, so it’s possible for less people.
For most people: the more difficult, the more expensive to get fixed
The more difficult it is to repair something, the less possible it becomes to repair it.
That’s not true.
what an average person can do with tools they can easily pick up at any hardware
The tools someone has has nothing to do with difficulty.
That’s not true.
The tools someone has has nothing to do with difficulty.
No way you aren’t ragebaiting
Is it easier or harder to tighten a bolt without a wrench?
It’s neither, it’s impossible
You could use pliers, you could very carefully hit the corners of the head in a clockwise direction with a hammer, you could spend a lot of time training the strength in your hand and arm to tighten it by hand, you could use a dremel, saw, or file to cut a slot into it and tighten it with a screwdriver
But it’s a lot easier to use a wrench.
Gonna need some elaboration on that last point. You’re saying having appropriate tools for the job and the difficulty of the job have no relationship? Are you against right to repair? It seems implicit in your comments.
You’re saying having appropriate tools for the job and the difficulty of the job have no relationship?
Typically not having the right tools makes it impossible, not hard.
Are you against right to repair? It seems implicit in your comments.
How the hell do you reach that conclusion? Where’s the logic there?
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
That’s… What the repairability score is.
I wasn’t talking about the repairability score. I was talking about the title of this article stating that it’s “harder” to repair than the Switch 1.
Yeah, it is harder to do. Specifically
- you need to remove stickers in a way that you can replace them, if you want to keep them looking good
- You need to undo glue, iFixit used isopropyl alcohol and force
- Once you’re in its fairly easy to replace parts, but Nintendo don’t supply parts
- Batteries are glued down, you need to destroy the foam beneath them to get the batteries out, Nintendo don’t sell replacement foam, or even a specification for the foam
By being harder it will be more costly to repair
Oof.
The article is clickbaity and a bit crappy. The repair guide is not.
Welcome to the modern gaming press, I suppose.
From the teardown the only “corporate shenanigans” seem to be the usual soft security measures of hiding screws, having glue in a couple of places and using their security screws in the outer shell. I guess until we start seeing experimentation with swapping parts around we won’t know if any pieces are signed to the board (something both Sony and Microsoft have been doing with optical media readers for ages, for example), but I’d be surprised. I assume iFixit have either tried or will try soon.
I think the difficulty matters, particularly for stick replacements. The Switch sticks weren’t super easy to change but it was doable. I’d say this one is… harder. I’m hoping the sticks are more reliable, but I would seriously consider buying an aftermarket joycon before trying to replace a stick myself on this one. That’s perhaps the one significant escalation I see here, and I will give it at least a bit of a pass in terms of difficulty because man, are the joycon insanely packed with stuff.
