…
It is a scenario playing out nationwide. From Oregon to Pennsylvania, hundreds of communities have in recent years either stopped adding fluoride to their water supplies or voted to prevent its addition. Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice. The broad availability of over-the-counter dental products containing the mineral makes it no longer necessary to add to public water supplies, they say. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that while store-bought products reduce tooth decay, the greatest protection comes when they are used in combination with water fluoridation.
The outcome of an ongoing federal case in California could force the Environmental Protection Agency to create a rule regulating or banning the use of fluoride in drinking water nationwide. In the meantime, the trend is raising alarm bells for public health researchers who worry that, much like vaccines, fluoride may have become a victim of its own success.
The CDC maintains that community water fluoridation is not only safe and effective but also yields significant cost savings in dental treatment. Public health officials say removing fluoride could be particularly harmful to low-income families — for whom drinking water may be the only source of preventive dental care.
“If you have to go out and get care on your own, it’s a whole different ballgame,” said Myron Allukian Jr., a dentist and past president of the American Public Health Association. Millions of people have lived with fluoridated water for years, “and we’ve had no major health problems,” he said. “It’s much easier to prevent a disease than to treat it.”
According to the anti-fluoride group Fluoride Action Network, since 2010, over 240 communities around the world have removed fluoride from their drinking water or decided not to add it.
We need to stop letting the village idiots make policy.
We need to stop letting the conservatives make policy.
FTFY
You just repeated what OP said.
That would require a large community effort to resist occupation.
Yes we definitely need to get rid of this democracy thing /s
The problem with our current democracy is that we haven’t enshrined education as a right. Democracy works great if the population is informed and has critical thinking skills. In America, any stupid idea that becomes popular enough can become the law, because the population is too stupid to make pragmatic, evidence-based decisions.
The first thing is not so much less democracy, but more participation. I’m definitely guilty of this myself, so not trying to be holier than thou preachy. Conservatives have been doing a concerted effort to take over lower level offices as well, school boards, municipal positions, etc. Part of the issue seems ro be the people who want to do this stuff often have an ulterior motive, and people who should probably be in these spots have a lack of interest.
Local office is pretty much shit. You get yelled at for whatever the crazies saw on TV last night, you can’t fix anything, and everyone is angry about something.
Never doing it again.
If you want to protect democracy maybe don’t defend the worst examples of it.
The christofascists are trying to destroy democracy. The village idiots are their brown shirts.
Funnily enough, the idiots do have a grain a truth here, that grain just happens to be an example of the internet’s favorite, Dunning-Kruger.
Excess flouride does have profound negative effects on intelligence. Several hundreds times the levels you get positive effects for tooth health from, and thus well beyond the scope of flouridation programs. There are also other notable side effects from flouride toxicity, so it’d be quite noticable.
There are even several regions of America and China where they need deflouridation treatments for ground water, but the conspiracy types never seem to mention those.
They also don’t seem to note that flouride toxicity, like lead toxicity, leads to both decreased intelligence and increased aggression.
How making the working class angry and dumb makes them easier for the owner class to control and profit from never seems to come up.
Lead exposure also causes reduced intelligence.
Leaded gasoline was still a thing when I was a kid.
Lead paint chips are delicious.
And those Stanley cups that suburbia is raging over, also contains lead.
You should probably read the whole thing, but, you know, the lead, I get it
Nice. I’m used to reacting to post headlines long since past.
Also lead.
Excess of ANYTHING leads to brain damage or death
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How making the working class angry and dumb makes them easier for the owner class to control and profit from never seems to come up.
Ask the folks at the Jan 6th riot. Trump played them all like fiddles.
Sure, but I don’t think anyone is accusing Trump of being behind a flouridation conspiracy. It demonstrates rather that angry morons are rather easy to point at the government, which is why the government probably doesn’t want a bunch of angry morons to rule.
I don’t think anyone is accusing Trump of being behind a flouridation conspiracy.
Sure. I’m simply noting that whipping people up into a frenzy or panic is an age old technique for controlling large populations.
It demonstrates rather that angry morons are rather easy to point at the government
Or at this or that ethnic group or religious sect or ideological cohort, sure. You don’t even have to be particularly conservative for this technique to work. Liberals fall for the Immigrant Caravan Invasion and Crime Wave panic stories and Pending Federal Bankruptcy and Communist Invasion stories as easily as any moderate Republican.
the government probably doesn’t want a bunch of angry morons to rule
They do, if they want to export that violence overseas or inflict it on minority groups and women, as a means of social control.
And it isn’t as though state officials are even all that rational. Certainly, Joe Biden’s had no problem perpetuating a genocide overseas, despite his policy whipping up a bonfire of opposition at home and in neighboring regions. Neither do Vladimir Putin or MBS or Narendra Modi seem shy about stoking the fires of bigotry in their own countries, as a means of mobilizing large groups of people into parades of support for their rule.
Angry morons are a great source of cheap activist labor, whether you’re storming the capital on Jan 6th or rallying Hindu nationalists to tear down a 600-year-old mosque in Delhi.
Americans won the battle to bring back measles
Now they’re fighting to bring back tooth decay
Article mentions multiple places in Canada doing the same thing. I am sure you read the article and knew that.
Did I touch a nerve? I was making a joke
Guess Americans aren’t the only ones that can’t read eh?
I suppose, all I saw was that in Canada a self reported study found communities with fluoride thought they weren’t as smart as people in those without thought they were
So I must be illiterate
Your og comment is one that brings nothing of value except circlejerk. You sound like a redditor
Thanks friend
It’s good you finally read the article though.
Can’t stand a liar.
Guys doubling fisting 64oz Big Gulps won that war ages ago
Reverse osmosis filtered bottled water too
This is what happens when you have an scientifically illiterate population.
It’s the old Alex Jones “turning the frogs gay” line. Just enough science to hurt yourself with.
I wanted to watch the video, but piped isn’t working. Can you help with another link, 🔗 or not, no biggie?
I went ahead and just linked it to the Youtube link. Should be working now.
On a more positive note if they lose their teeth they might have less luck at reproduction. Problem fixes itself, fingers crossed
From personal experience in dealing with people without as many teeth as the average, it doesn’t stop them. R selection strategies in action.
I am missing a tooth from a face injury.
You’re still above average! ;)
How? I don’t know anyone my age that is missing two teeth. It isn’t a big deal I have a fake one in there. Hurt like fucking hell at the time however.
Lol, mostly because I’m playing with the numbers. Kids only have 20 teeth until they’re in double digits. But I was also working with a population that typically had 3-10 teeth missing, so my perspective is skewed ;)
Do your point a favor, remove the n from an
This sounds like that Simpsons episode where the school board votes down the “free recharging of fire extinguishers”. They aren’t even saying that their might be problems with floride, they just want choice for the option of choices sake. What is next, freedom to push your children into traffic?
they just want choice for the option of choices sake.
This is a common talking point for people who can’t otherwise justify their position. It’s the “because I said so” of arguing. You see it a lot with far right talking points, where they’ll frame it as freedom of choice, when it’s really just an excuse to pander to conspiracy theorists, the extremely religious, racists, homophobes, etc…
“The civil war wasn’t about slavery; it was about states’ rights.”
“If I want to refuse service to a gay couple, that should be my choice.”
“If I want to refuse service to a mixed race couple, that should be my choice.”
For some reason, they never came around on the Pro-Choice movement, though
But that was choices for women, who Conservatives have been clear that they view as property.
If I want to prevent your abortion, that should be my choice. “My” being the operative word, they’re incredibly selfish. (Oh, and should the situation arise, “My abortion is the only justified abortion.”)
“My abortion is the only justified abortion.”
Practically a one-to-one correlation between pro-life politicians and pregnant sex workers forced to get abortions.
Children yearn for the streets; It has been far too long since it was commonplace for them to beg for bread, freezing in the cold, yearning for Scrooge’s pocketbook.
But, but, but… states rights.
So lead, plastic, and PFAS are fine but fluoride is where they draw the line…?
They’re also against vaccines because supposedly vaccines will damage their DNA… whereas apparently PFAS don’t.
This
God i wish my community fluoridated its water. Just had a kid, and anything to help prevent cavities is amazing, and low levels of floride is such an easy, risk free and cheap solution.
Buy fluoridated water for your kid, don’t dose the population with drugs in their water.
None of that conspiracy stuff matters, it doesn’t matter if fluoride is 100% safe. Don’t put drugs in tap water.
but what if the water is naturally too high in fluoride. should we not use “drugs” to remove the flouride to bring it back to safe levels?
Should we remove the “calcium drug” that is in groundwater too? and trace iron? those are drugs the same way fluoride is, should we be removing them?
What about the chlorine we add to water to make sure water remains safe. thats a “drug”, isnt it? should we only ship raw water, and just accept some people will die?
Or should we put on our bigboy pants, and deal with reality?
but what if the water is naturally too high in fluoride. should we not use “drugs” to remove the flouride to bring it back to safe levels?
If a natural body of water that is to be used as a water supply has high levels of a dangerous substance, yes, it should be removed. I’d say this is common sense, you don’t drink dirty water just because it’s “natural”. Also, it’s not necessary to use other drugs to remove fluoride. Either way, I’m saying adding drugs to municipal water supplies is not a good idea, I’m not making any claims about natural bodies of water.
Should we remove the “calcium drug” that is in groundwater too? and trace iron? those are drugs the same way fluoride is, should we be removing them?
Again, I’m saying adding a drug to municipal water supplies is problematic, not making claims about appropriateness of groundwater.
What about the chlorine we add to water to make sure water remains safe. thats a “drug”, isnt it? should we only ship raw water, and just accept some people will die?
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These are very different questions. If you suddenly removed chlorine from tap water around the U.S., massive numbers, perhaps tens of millions of people would likely die within days. If you suddenly removed the fluoride, rates of tooth decay would increase over the following years.
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Chlorine added to water is not a drug meant to affect the the body of the consumer, it’s to prevent spread of water borne disease.
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Ideally, no I don’t want chlorine added either – the need for chlorinated water is another one of the many problems we create for ourselves when we live at a grotesque overpopulation.
Or should we put on our bigboy pants, and deal with reality?
The reality is that we add a known neurotoxin to our tap water and drug our population to reduce tooth decay. Disprove this statement. Is fluoride not a known neurotoxin?
Its just an odd double standard you have, some chemicals are OK to be added, others are not. My thought process is very simple “fluoride is extremely safe, and everyone deserves the opportunity to live without cavities, lets level that playing field, the same as we do by chlorinating our water”
Fluoride is NOT a neurotoxin in the amounts the found in tap water. Everything is toxic in high enough quantities, and if you think we should ban something because in concentrate it is toxic, then we need to ban water too. If you think fluoride is a neurotoxin in the levels mandated by the FDA, please prove that.
Its just an odd double standard you have, some chemicals are OK to be added, others are not.
You misundersand. No chemeicals added to water are OK, but chlorine is tolerable considering it saves millions of lives. Everything has a cost to benefit ratio. Adding chlorine to tap water has a huge benefit, fluoride does not.
Fluoride is NOT a neurotoxin in the amounts the found in tap water
How can you know the dose a person gets from a drug added to tap water? The fact is that dosing by tap water is one of the worst drug distribution methods possible.
Everything is toxic in high enough quantities, and if you think we should ban something because in concentrate it is toxic, then we need to ban water too
This is silly and does not relate to my argument.
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WTF? No, you shouldn’t want it added randomly to the water. I grew up with well water and my teeth are fine, don’t buy into the bullshit.
N=1 case study from a radically biased individual or multiple rigorous studies by people who understand public health. I just don’t know what to believe!
I grew up with well water as a child and my baby teeth were wrecked. Adult teeth had fluoride and are fine (for the most part)
So there’s an anecdotal experience that counters yours
Oh, great - a “I didn’t have that and look at me. I’m fine. You shouldn’t have it either.” person.
It’s a meaningful statement though. Natural drinking water doesn’t have flouride added to it, it’s inclusion is frankly bizarre, and the idea that human beings think it’s good to be added is so Bizzarro World to me.
The claim something is “natural” whatever that means does not make it good or safe. Fluoride in the drinking water tho, has proven to be effective and safe.
What the hell is “natural drinking water?” That’s not a thing.
If you mean water from a spring or creek, that’s “spring water.” If by “natural” you mean untreated, unfiltered, untested, it might be okay but can also kill you depending on bacteria levels, parasites, or other pollutants or contaminates.
Don’t drink random water out of the ground.
Natural drinking water doesn’t have flouride added to it
It’s present, but the levels vary and may not be sufficient in a given area to help prevent cavities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride
Fluoride is naturally present in groundwater, fresh and saltwater sources, as well as in rainwater, particularly in urban areas.[7] Seawater fluoride levels are usually in the range of 0.86 to 1.4 mg/L, and average 1.1 mg/L[8] (milligrams per litre). For comparison, chloride concentration in seawater is about 19 g/L. The low concentration of fluoride reflects the insolubility of the alkaline earth fluorides, e.g., CaF2.
This has the same kind of vibe as the old people who speak fondly about the good old days back when not even kids had to wear seat belts or be in car seats.
“And I survived!”
you grew up on well water, which is often high in fluoride.
You likely benefited from high fluoride, and just didnt realize it.
Meanwhile, I grew up with fluoride added to the water and only had one maybe two minor cavities by the time I was 25, then moved to a place that has such shitty city water everyone heavily filters it, so even if fluoride is added, the filtering removes most of it, and I have had so many dental problems since, not a single one without at least one filling, and several crowns… So there, my anecdote cancels yours.
Use a fluoridated mouthwash before you brush, and switch to a hydroxapatite toothbrush for 3 months, might be a good experiment
No, people shouldn’t have the right to choose if fluoride is added to their water. People are stupid. You vote to remove something that will greatly help children that can’t vote. The government’s job, sometimes, is to stop stupid people from hurting others and their selves. That’s the reason you can’t drink raw milk or use lead gas.
The raw milk thing is actually part of the reason the FDA was formed!
That’s the reason you can’t drink raw milk or use lead gas.
You can get raw milk if your state allows it. The federal government bans it, but only has regulatory authority over interstate commerce, so it can’t be moved across state boundaries, but you can get it if it’s made in-state.
I mean, I think that you’re mostly aiming to expose yourself to listeria, but if that’s what someone wants…
My guess is that dairy farmers have an interest in promoting it in that if they can sell it, it gives them a market without much competition.
Drinking milk was a bad example. I should have said sell unpasteurized milk. The point I think we both agree is that stupid for people make stupid decisions. Just like I don’t think people can decide about vaccines that have very low risk rates. It effects everyone, not just the idiots.
If stupid people want to make stupid decisions, that’s fine. The problem is when they try to take the rest of society down with them via damage or converting others to that stupidity.
That was my badly worded point. Other are effected by a few people with extra time.
You can drill your own well to get your own water, just like you can have a cow for raw milk.
can we compromise on drinking raw milk with flouride added?
Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
Well, and TB.
Some of the herd nobly chose to sacrifice itself to improve the genetic resistance of the whole.
Just let them die then, rather than trying to make them age where they don’t want to.
That is a completely different argument and has nothing to do with the topic.
Of course you can drink raw milk if you want to!
Btw, cooking milk destroys some of the good stuff in it.
Edit: Raw milk has proteins which boost immune system and growth (because it’s for baby cows), which break down while cooking.
And yeah, probably don’t drink raw milk in US.
And all the things that kill you.
Probably a culture and laws difference. Here (swiss) getting raw milk from your local farmer is no problem.
I’m sure small doses of cyanide has benefits too.
Yes they should. Ingesting fluoride is bad for you, and it doesn’t help your teeth to drink it. That’s why small children’s toothpaste doesn’t have it, because you can’t trust them not to eat it. It’s only good when applied directly to the teeth, which can be accomplished on a daily basis by using toothpaste with fluoride and/or a mouthwash containing it, both of which you don’t drink.
Fluoride is removed from my drinking water by my reverse-osmosis filtration system, along with all the other contaminants like PFAS and lead. I’ve been drinking fluoride-free water for 10 years, and my teeth are beautiful and healthy. Anyone who drinks bottled water is also probably drinking fluoride-free water since those companies mostly use the same filtration method to produce their bottled water.
Do you have evidence?
Sure, here’s a good article with lots of info.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/
Link to original article. Cheers to you for citing your sources, but the authors here are massively conflating the effects of industrial fluoride exposure with residential water fluoridation in an attempt to prove a position they began with.
That’s not a peer reviewed study - its somebody’s editorialized book report.
Go ahead and review it then - their sources are cited.
Evidence has been presented, whether or not you agree with what it says is irrelevant.
I am SO tired of being at the mercy of idiots.
“Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups” -George Carlin
USA, can you PPEASE remform your education system and actually ensure that everyone gets a normal and good education? Your idiots are ruining the country.
Also while at it, use that education to teach the kids what freedom really is, how little you really have of it, that boasting about it is dumb, and that using it to make idiotic decisions doesn’t make you look awesome, it makes you look like, well, an idiot.
De-education has been an agenda of one of the parties since the eighties, and we’re just seeing it take fruit now.
These things take time, and that party plays the ‘long game’.
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Since that person named USA explicitly, I’m going to assume that they’re not an American, and that English is not their native language, and hence, not being taken to task for their spelling.
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Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
I assume nobody has planted a bomb on my car, that my spouse hasn’t poisoned my food, and that my chair hasn’t been rigged to collapse when I sit on it.
Assuming is how people can reasonably function day to day. You assumed your post had value. Sometimes assuming works out for you, sometimes it doesn’t.
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Actually assuming makes an ass out of you and Ming
🪦
Stop bothering Ming. She has done nothing to deserve that
I had great teeth as a kid, but then moved out to the boonies with well water, 5-6 years later I started getting cavities (while still getting fluoride at the dentist twice a year). My teeth have been nothing but problems since.
Now our town water refuses to add fluoride and a bunch of my son’s school mates already have fillings in kindergarten.
My two older kids had fluoride in their city water and youngest never did. Lots cavities in that one kid
Are we sure these people don’t just want to ban Florida but have a spelling problem?
Solid
Oh good. Whats old is new again.
Flouride conspiracies are old hat compared to most of the bullshit thats been bandied about in the past 10 years.
Solved it guys, Introducing T-dazzle, a safe fun and natural system to keep your sparklies sparkling. You can even earn discounts on your long term dental checkups by using it.
Fun fact: spreading conspiracy theories about the evils of fluoride in the water (it’s mind control! pollutes our precious bodily fluids!) was one of the talking points that crypto-fascists threw against the wall to see if it would stick- if you recall the line about your “precious bodily fluids” in Dr. Strangelove, that was a nod to that particular vein of conspiracy theory that was making the rounds in the far-loony fringes of what was then the Republican party
The UK used the same argument to stop the addition of iodine to salt. “People already consume enough dietary iodine”. You know what happened? Thyroid diseases are on the rise in the UK again, slowly creeping back to early XX century levels.
I think iodine is underappreciated. But also I think fewer and fewer people use the salt shaker because they eat so much processed food (which has salt that is not iodized). Then you’re down to milk and seafood. Milk gets it because they use iodine to sanitize the udders. So if you don’t drink milk and who eats seafood on most days. Solution to anyone reading: multivitamin.
