Oh man, don’t read the comments, sad to see the smartasses saying “report back when you install windows again in two months” while getting utterly fucked by Windows.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant, it’s not a sports team for fucks sake, of course it’s not easy switching and you will have problems just dont be afraid to ask and read the error warning.
Rant over
I use Windows for work and I miss Win10, I don’t like it but I’m aware that’s currently the target of most Consumer SW for good reason but that reason is starting to break (say it with me! BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS!!!).
Happy to see Linux getting mainstream, not all comments are bad but I the trolls got me.
Well, if you honestly think about it, Linux has always been tried by many of people that eventually went back to Windows because something wasn’t entirely straightforward. Don’t get me wrong, I love Linux, but I don’t blame people for thinking that. Trying Linux is very different than sticking to it. Linux is amazing OS for people who put at least some effort into learning it, but like it or not, it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues. Given how many sets of hardware and peripherals people have, weird quirks, bugs and required workarounds aren’t unheard of. Maybe it’s just something very simple to fix for an advanced user, but normies will just run away.
it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues.
I think that describes computers.
Windows does the same thing, only worse because it is harder to trouble shoot, and harder to fix if you find yourself at the point where a reinstall is the only way out.
I am dealing with a laptop like that now for someone else, and it would be simple if it was linux, but of course its a pain in the ass because its windows.
As someone who tried it for a few months then switched back for several years before returning permanently two years ago: Linux has long had the problem that it’s completely ready for different people at different times.
In 2017 it was in pretty good shape if you weren’t a gamer, didn’t mind tinkering a fair bit, were prepared to learn a completely different two ways of installing software, and didn’t rely on proprietary apps (I couldn’t get Netflix to work). I was only ready for the tinkering. Also I’d used Ubuntu and gnome just added more changes.
Five years later a lot had changed. I wasn’t using Netflix (especially not in the app) for one. But Proton had come around and made gaming just work. My wifi drivers just worked unlike before. Years of mobile app stores and a few months of lemmy had prepared me for repos, even though it still took some getting the hang of to switch from just downloading and double clicking an exe file. But also the software options are increasingly available rather than having to learn to use old school wine while in the middle of a massive change. I still think I should switch away from garuda at some point as I dislike some of the choices it made (no flatpak support for one), but I love aspects of it. And all throughout that time that Linux was getting more accessible to someone like me who isn’t a coder, but was tech nerd curious, windows was increasingly getting in my way and becoming anti user.
I think adoption will continue to increase as Linux continues to get easier for more people
Garuda was a great distro for a hot minute. It was right where it needed to be to access Steam on Linux right as the Steam Deck came to market. It got all the performance benefits of Proton immediately as other distros had to play catch-up.
It still is a great distro, but it’s lost some is that exclusivity.
it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work
Which is like 95% of people.
Imagine if cars worked this way. Imagine you needed to be a mechanic to operate your vehicle. To start and drive your car, you first have to do automotive work, and know how to do automotive work.
A lot less people would drive themselves. A lot more Ubers.
I’ve been daily driving Linux for about 3 years now and one major tip I can give is to avoid using non Linux apps as far as possible. When I started with Linux I also tried to get windows apps running on Linux, but this, at least as far as I remember, never worked the way I wanted ans always caused more troubles. Currently I’m at a point where I dont even know when I used plain wine (I am not counting proton) the last time. It has been 2 years at least. I Am using native Linux apps for everything I do. Much less trouble shooting, no need to learn wine additionally to the command line and much less prone to breaking because of an update.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant
I’m suspecting around 80% of the people who switched to Linux after Win11/AI stuff, will switch back within 6 months.
Well of course, there’s probably other Windows stuff they are also using, considering how much they aren’t even trying to ship for something like Ubuntu, which would be super easy otherwise.
I can only imagine how big of a push Autodesk can easily put towards Linux. That would easily make the current rise to 5% be nothing in comparison. Maybe MS is paying them too, to keep them together.
Of course it might also just be that MS makes it easier for them to setup a DRM (Digital Rights Management) as compared to Linux, not that it matters considering how much they have been pirated.
Then there was this person who was not using Linux because of the CAD software he wanted to use and when I asked what exactly it was, he said, “KiCad”[1].
it’s available in Arch and Debian official repositories ↩︎
I don’t see them as trolls. I’ve been on ZorinOS for about a year now. I hate it because I don’t know how to do anything, but I’m not smart enough to learn terminal.
Flatpaks are the answer to installation. But any problem I have, I google, and every result starts the same way.
"Ok, Step 1, open terminal
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I have a 100% rate of those solutions not working for me. And the reason is simple. Those solutions assume you know how to use linux. So when you copy and paste their terminal commands, and your terminal responds with error: dependancies not found, YOU know how to fix that error and it works for you. But for most regular people, thats the end of that. Problem not solved. Problem remains a problem FOREVER.
No, seriously. I have a usb recovery stick that allows me to backup/restore my hard drive exactly how it is. Anytime I have to use terminal I ALWAYS make a backup of my hard drive first. Which takes 4 hours. And the reason for that is, when I inevitably fuck something up in terminal, and the whole OS crashes, and refuses to boot, I have a backup. It takes nearly 20 hours to restore the image, but it works. But whatever problem I was trying to solve remains.
Imagine if that were your linux experience. Windows spies on you. They have enshitification out the ass. But it works for the masses without technical knowledge.
The other issue is that businesses use windows. So most people are firmiliar with windows. So all the popular programs are on windows. Linux has a way to emulate windows programs, but its hard to get working, and sometimes just DOESN’T work.
If linux had every single program windows has, 100% as a flatpak, it would do wonders for install rate…for about a year.
Once people install the programs, they’ll at some point run into an issue. On windows you solve the problem 99% of the time by restarting. On linux, that hasn’t fixed any of my problems once.
These people aren’t trolls. They just have a different opinion than you from a different perspective.
Next time you have an issue in linux, any issue, regardless of how small, I want you to turn off your computer for 4 hours. Then turn it back on for 5 minutes. Then off again for 20 hours. Don’t solve the issue. I know YOU can solve the issue in 30 seconds, but don’t. After the 24 hours no computer use, just live with the problem for the rest of your life.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun, does it? Sounds like a reason to have a sour experience. Suddenly they don’t seem like trolls.
You can learn how to use the terminal. You have demonstrated the ability to compose a coherent sentence, you can learn.
Every terminal command is a program. Typing a “command” into the terminal is just typing the name of a program. If you type firefox, Firefox launches. If it’s installed, we’ll come back to that. Anything else in the “command” like if you see letters or words after a dash, something like ls -a is an option, it’s like ticking a box in a dialog window, but on the front end. I recommend spinning up a virtual machine or getting a Raspberry Pi or something you don’t care about, and following some tutorials. Learn how to move around the file system, install software, run some utilities.
About that “if it’s installed” part. You mentioned you run Zorin. Zorin is what I call a Trendy Distro Of The Month. I’ve been using Linux for twelve years now, this hasn’t stopped yet. There’s the mainstays like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat, Fedora, Arch, OpenSuSe, there’s the niche special purpose things like Kali and TAILS and Puppy and Tiny, and then there’s the hundreds of quadrillions of “We took Ubuntu, put Steam on it by default, swapped SystemD for whatever.rs, swapped Firefox for Chromium and did a half-assed job at theming and extending Gnome that’s going to break every time they push an update.”
PeppermintOS, ZorinOS, ElementaryOS, Pop!_OS, Garuda, Nobara, Endeavor, Manjaro, Bazzite, Cachy, hundreds of others, are basically the same software in some slightly mutated permutation that most veterans aren’t familiar with. Invariably the veterans first hear about them from noobs who went looking for a distro that is “good for gaming” or “easy for beginners” and because SEO they find the Trendy Distro Of The Month. Which always offers some little gimmick that ultimately doesn’t matter. The process of getting a Bazzite ISO is taking a little Cosmo quiz about what you’re going to do, but then the installer is really borked compared to Mint or even Fedora.
A lot of instructions are written with Ubuntu or sometimes Fedora in mind, and then you pick a distro that differs from those, and then bitch that instructions don’t work.
Also, you need to upgrade your backup hardware if it takes 20 hours to image a drive. That should take minutes.
Can’t speak for you, but trouble shooting, even if you dont know what you do, is at least in my experience way easier. A terminal command does the exact same thing, no matter on which system (OK, there are differences like package manager, but you get what mean) and no matter when. On Windows you get 10 screenshots of a UI that has changed 10 times since the creation of the guide and no or a completely useless error message if something does not work.
As long as you are not trying to debug big ass problems that affect core components of your system (bootloader, drives, stuff with the kernel) it is in fact quite hard to fuck up your entire system (it can happen with Updates on Arch, but this is usually quite rare). As long as you are not touching anything else except your /home directory you should not be able to break your entire system. Also if you are still scared of losing date, there are ways of creating system snapshots (backups). Backing up your home directory is enough because this means, that all the files you use daily are backed up.
Since you mentioned dependencies, here’s a quick answer to what this means. There are a shit ton of programming libraries. A library has the use case, that a developer does not have to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something. You dont want to write a complete library for GUIs every time, but instead use standardised well maintained and documented libraries. Since Programms use these they depend on the user having this library (or alternatively Programms) installed. This is called a dependency. In most cases dependency errors mean, that an expected library is not installed. In this case simply copy the name, and search “install name Linux (or your Distros)” and you are almost guaranteed to find a tutorial for installing it.
My best tip is, that you take the time to learn the basics of Linux. What is a package manager and which one does my system use, how do I navigate directories, how do I create and delete files, how do I edit files. How do I copy or move files. If you know the basics of these things you know most of the stuff you need to know to understand what you are doing. If you want to read more about a specific command you can also always refer to the man page of said command. For this simply type in man “command name” (e.G. “man cd” this gives you the basic infos about the CD command (used for navigating directorys))
The existence of PC Master Race tells me everything I need to know about gamers who cling to windows. Edit: And post comments like the “report back” one you cited.
Oh man, don’t read the comments, sad to see the smartasses saying “report back when you install windows again in two months” while getting utterly fucked by Windows.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant, it’s not a sports team for fucks sake, of course it’s not easy switching and you will have problems just dont be afraid to ask and read the error warning.
Rant over
I use Windows for work and I miss Win10, I don’t like it but I’m aware that’s currently the target of most Consumer SW for good reason but that reason is starting to break (say it with me! BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS!!!).
Happy to see Linux getting mainstream, not all comments are bad but I the trolls got me.
It’s like do-gooder derogation. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation )
Someone doing something good? Fuck them. They think they’re better than us?? Where do they get off??!?
A lot of people are trash and are emotionally invested in both the way things currently are, and that they are a very good person
TIL there’s a name for this
There’s a name for everything. There’s probably a name for there being a name for everything.
Well, if you honestly think about it, Linux has always been tried by many of people that eventually went back to Windows because something wasn’t entirely straightforward. Don’t get me wrong, I love Linux, but I don’t blame people for thinking that. Trying Linux is very different than sticking to it. Linux is amazing OS for people who put at least some effort into learning it, but like it or not, it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues. Given how many sets of hardware and peripherals people have, weird quirks, bugs and required workarounds aren’t unheard of. Maybe it’s just something very simple to fix for an advanced user, but normies will just run away.
I think that describes computers.
Windows does the same thing, only worse because it is harder to trouble shoot, and harder to fix if you find yourself at the point where a reinstall is the only way out.
I am dealing with a laptop like that now for someone else, and it would be simple if it was linux, but of course its a pain in the ass because its windows.
As someone who tried it for a few months then switched back for several years before returning permanently two years ago: Linux has long had the problem that it’s completely ready for different people at different times.
In 2017 it was in pretty good shape if you weren’t a gamer, didn’t mind tinkering a fair bit, were prepared to learn a completely different two ways of installing software, and didn’t rely on proprietary apps (I couldn’t get Netflix to work). I was only ready for the tinkering. Also I’d used Ubuntu and gnome just added more changes.
Five years later a lot had changed. I wasn’t using Netflix (especially not in the app) for one. But Proton had come around and made gaming just work. My wifi drivers just worked unlike before. Years of mobile app stores and a few months of lemmy had prepared me for repos, even though it still took some getting the hang of to switch from just downloading and double clicking an exe file. But also the software options are increasingly available rather than having to learn to use old school wine while in the middle of a massive change. I still think I should switch away from garuda at some point as I dislike some of the choices it made (no flatpak support for one), but I love aspects of it. And all throughout that time that Linux was getting more accessible to someone like me who isn’t a coder, but was tech nerd curious, windows was increasingly getting in my way and becoming anti user.
I think adoption will continue to increase as Linux continues to get easier for more people
Garuda was a great distro for a hot minute. It was right where it needed to be to access Steam on Linux right as the Steam Deck came to market. It got all the performance benefits of Proton immediately as other distros had to play catch-up.
It still is a great distro, but it’s lost some is that exclusivity.
Which is like 95% of people.
Imagine if cars worked this way. Imagine you needed to be a mechanic to operate your vehicle. To start and drive your car, you first have to do automotive work, and know how to do automotive work.
A lot less people would drive themselves. A lot more Ubers.
I’ve been using Linux as my daily driver for over a month. The only thing I miss are some old windows apps that I’m too lazy to troubleshoot in Wine.
I’ve been daily driving Linux for about 3 years now and one major tip I can give is to avoid using non Linux apps as far as possible. When I started with Linux I also tried to get windows apps running on Linux, but this, at least as far as I remember, never worked the way I wanted ans always caused more troubles. Currently I’m at a point where I dont even know when I used plain wine (I am not counting proton) the last time. It has been 2 years at least. I Am using native Linux apps for everything I do. Much less trouble shooting, no need to learn wine additionally to the command line and much less prone to breaking because of an update.
This is the right approach but IF you must and IF you have decent computer, try Winboat
I’m suspecting around 80% of the people who switched to Linux after Win11/AI stuff, will switch back within 6 months.
I’m saying this as a Linux user.
I’m still going strong two years later! :D
The top comments don’t look too bad now… Maybe they’re ranked differently or something
Who knows, maybe Autodesk will finally start thinking about Linux.
They already use Qt anyway, so the .NET part is all they’d need to fix.
There’s Mono. I don’t know what portion of .NET compatibility issues that addresses in 2025.
Well of course, there’s probably other Windows stuff they are also using, considering how much they aren’t even trying to ship for something like Ubuntu, which would be super easy otherwise.
I can only imagine how big of a push Autodesk can easily put towards Linux. That would easily make the current rise to 5% be nothing in comparison. Maybe MS is paying them too, to keep them together.
Of course it might also just be that MS makes it easier for them to setup a DRM (Digital Rights Management) as compared to Linux, not that it matters considering how much they have been pirated.
Then there was this person who was not using Linux because of the CAD software he wanted to use and when I asked what exactly it was, he said, “KiCad”[1].
it’s available in Arch and Debian official repositories ↩︎
I don’t see them as trolls. I’ve been on ZorinOS for about a year now. I hate it because I don’t know how to do anything, but I’m not smart enough to learn terminal.
Flatpaks are the answer to installation. But any problem I have, I google, and every result starts the same way.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I have a 100% rate of those solutions not working for me. And the reason is simple. Those solutions assume you know how to use linux. So when you copy and paste their terminal commands, and your terminal responds with error: dependancies not found, YOU know how to fix that error and it works for you. But for most regular people, thats the end of that. Problem not solved. Problem remains a problem FOREVER.
No, seriously. I have a usb recovery stick that allows me to backup/restore my hard drive exactly how it is. Anytime I have to use terminal I ALWAYS make a backup of my hard drive first. Which takes 4 hours. And the reason for that is, when I inevitably fuck something up in terminal, and the whole OS crashes, and refuses to boot, I have a backup. It takes nearly 20 hours to restore the image, but it works. But whatever problem I was trying to solve remains.
Imagine if that were your linux experience. Windows spies on you. They have enshitification out the ass. But it works for the masses without technical knowledge.
The other issue is that businesses use windows. So most people are firmiliar with windows. So all the popular programs are on windows. Linux has a way to emulate windows programs, but its hard to get working, and sometimes just DOESN’T work.
If linux had every single program windows has, 100% as a flatpak, it would do wonders for install rate…for about a year.
Once people install the programs, they’ll at some point run into an issue. On windows you solve the problem 99% of the time by restarting. On linux, that hasn’t fixed any of my problems once.
These people aren’t trolls. They just have a different opinion than you from a different perspective.
Next time you have an issue in linux, any issue, regardless of how small, I want you to turn off your computer for 4 hours. Then turn it back on for 5 minutes. Then off again for 20 hours. Don’t solve the issue. I know YOU can solve the issue in 30 seconds, but don’t. After the 24 hours no computer use, just live with the problem for the rest of your life.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun, does it? Sounds like a reason to have a sour experience. Suddenly they don’t seem like trolls.
You can learn how to use the terminal. You have demonstrated the ability to compose a coherent sentence, you can learn.
Every terminal command is a program. Typing a “command” into the terminal is just typing the name of a program. If you type
firefox, Firefox launches. If it’s installed, we’ll come back to that. Anything else in the “command” like if you see letters or words after a dash, something likels -ais an option, it’s like ticking a box in a dialog window, but on the front end. I recommend spinning up a virtual machine or getting a Raspberry Pi or something you don’t care about, and following some tutorials. Learn how to move around the file system, install software, run some utilities.About that “if it’s installed” part. You mentioned you run Zorin. Zorin is what I call a Trendy Distro Of The Month. I’ve been using Linux for twelve years now, this hasn’t stopped yet. There’s the mainstays like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat, Fedora, Arch, OpenSuSe, there’s the niche special purpose things like Kali and TAILS and Puppy and Tiny, and then there’s the hundreds of quadrillions of “We took Ubuntu, put Steam on it by default, swapped SystemD for whatever.rs, swapped Firefox for Chromium and did a half-assed job at theming and extending Gnome that’s going to break every time they push an update.”
PeppermintOS, ZorinOS, ElementaryOS, Pop!_OS, Garuda, Nobara, Endeavor, Manjaro, Bazzite, Cachy, hundreds of others, are basically the same software in some slightly mutated permutation that most veterans aren’t familiar with. Invariably the veterans first hear about them from noobs who went looking for a distro that is “good for gaming” or “easy for beginners” and because SEO they find the Trendy Distro Of The Month. Which always offers some little gimmick that ultimately doesn’t matter. The process of getting a Bazzite ISO is taking a little Cosmo quiz about what you’re going to do, but then the installer is really borked compared to Mint or even Fedora.
A lot of instructions are written with Ubuntu or sometimes Fedora in mind, and then you pick a distro that differs from those, and then bitch that instructions don’t work.
Also, you need to upgrade your backup hardware if it takes 20 hours to image a drive. That should take minutes.
Can’t speak for you, but trouble shooting, even if you dont know what you do, is at least in my experience way easier. A terminal command does the exact same thing, no matter on which system (OK, there are differences like package manager, but you get what mean) and no matter when. On Windows you get 10 screenshots of a UI that has changed 10 times since the creation of the guide and no or a completely useless error message if something does not work. As long as you are not trying to debug big ass problems that affect core components of your system (bootloader, drives, stuff with the kernel) it is in fact quite hard to fuck up your entire system (it can happen with Updates on Arch, but this is usually quite rare). As long as you are not touching anything else except your /home directory you should not be able to break your entire system. Also if you are still scared of losing date, there are ways of creating system snapshots (backups). Backing up your home directory is enough because this means, that all the files you use daily are backed up.
Since you mentioned dependencies, here’s a quick answer to what this means. There are a shit ton of programming libraries. A library has the use case, that a developer does not have to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something. You dont want to write a complete library for GUIs every time, but instead use standardised well maintained and documented libraries. Since Programms use these they depend on the user having this library (or alternatively Programms) installed. This is called a dependency. In most cases dependency errors mean, that an expected library is not installed. In this case simply copy the name, and search “install name Linux (or your Distros)” and you are almost guaranteed to find a tutorial for installing it.
My best tip is, that you take the time to learn the basics of Linux. What is a package manager and which one does my system use, how do I navigate directories, how do I create and delete files, how do I edit files. How do I copy or move files. If you know the basics of these things you know most of the stuff you need to know to understand what you are doing. If you want to read more about a specific command you can also always refer to the man page of said command. For this simply type in man “command name” (e.G. “man cd” this gives you the basic infos about the CD command (used for navigating directorys))
The existence of PC Master Race tells me everything I need to know about gamers who cling to windows. Edit: And post comments like the “report back” one you cited.