Im not defending ICE here. But this woman was supposedly on vacation, stayed and got married, then divorced soon after. Give me a break. And then she traveled after knowingly not renewing her travel permit, and claims she thought it was renewed. None of this is in good faith. Do I think she and her child belong in a jail cell? No absolutely not, but this ICE situation is not exactly a secret. Read the goddamn room, ffs.
Sure there are actually-innocent people being detained by ICE in every city every day, but have you considered that this one is a pretty white woman?
And then she traveled after knowingly not renewing her travel permit, and claims she thought it was renewed.
That’s the part that gets me. She didn’t renew both because of cost, then when she renewed her work only the next time which was cheap, that didn’t raise flags…
She deserves a quick hearing or at least the option to take her kids back to NZ. The people in this group don’t see it that way though.
Gross
I thought the only ICE in Canada was in Nunavut
Shaw’s detention is among the latest examples of the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown, which, despite pledges to focus on violent criminals, has also swept up lawful residents like Shaw.
What to do when there aren’t enough violent criminals to remotely justify an even more violent ICE invasion of our cities?
I haven’t really heard of any violent criminals being detained
The violent criminals are the ones doing the detaining, Trump’s dementia just made him do an oopsie
Probably because those people were actually already correctly being detained…
A few ice officers have been trapped places, had to be helicoptered out.
There were never enough criminals. Gaslightinh since day one
The party of family values protecting us from the real monsters. Thank you MAGA!
/s in case it wasn’t obvious.
I think we should normalize saying scandalous shit without the /s and letting people hit us with a few “did you justs” before we have to actually specify that we’re kidding
Dropping the /s doesn’t work because conservatives unironically say scandalous shit, and people still vote for them thinking it is a “joke”.
This is so common that “Some scandalous shit”, conservatives,
probablyactually is a valid meme format.E.g. People joked how conservatives would excuse teenage brides because the Virgin Mary was a teenager. Cue the Alabama state auditor saying “Mary was a teenager” in defense of Roy Moore’s teenage sexual assault allegations.
“Mary was a teenager,” conservatives,
probably, actuallyRoy Moore, Republican US Senate candidate, accused of sexual assault on 14yo girl - ABC News - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-10/roy-moore-republican-senate-candidate-sexual-assault-allegation/9136922
We used to, but too many arseholes used it as social cover. They would say something racist/sexist etc then, if it turned out people called them out, they broke out the “it’s just a joke” card. By tagging at the beginning, they lose that excuse. 90% of the time, it’s not needed, but we also don’t want the arseholes hiding behind us. I’d rather clarify than help them.
It also helps, since this is an international community. What is obviously a joke to you, won’t be to another English speaker from elsewhere. Let alone someone with English as a second language.
The key to jokes is that they are at some point funny.
If they aren’t, you should be ashamed of them.
Context also matters. A funny joke to 1 group will fall flat with another, without the social context.
It’s also worth notice that /jk indicates a joke, while /s indicates sarcasm. They are related, but not the same thing.
The point is, if youre consistently unfunny you should be asked to stop and wear the shame suspenders whether its because you genuinely tried and failed, or because youre a nazi piece of shit.
Also ig f you’re a nazi you should get the whole ‘midsommar angel’ treatment. But wear the suspenders while you wait.
And before you know it, people are saying it non ironically.
Did you really just say that?
Hey were the shit stain of the world
I thought Republicans hate burocracy
They sure love it when it’s directed at people that aren’t them.
Only when it’s a barrier to their totalitarianism.
The party of family values protecting us from the real monsters. Thank you MAGA!
/s in case it wasn’t obvious.
Interesting. You double-posted (I assume by mistake) and got the exact same reply from two different accounts, making it extremely likely they are both bots. Nice work exposing them!
I reported both as such and added tags and 10k downvotes to Voyager for each. After reading other comments on this thread, I feel there are many more such bots on Lemmy than I previously expected.
I reported both as such and added tags and 10k downvotes to Voyager for each.
Nice! I’m not entirely sure how the Voyager thing works since I only use Sync on Android, but it sounds like a good warning sign for others so I appreciate it.
I feel there are many more such bots on Lemmy than I previously expected.
Yeah… It might be a nicer corner of the internet, but it’s still the internet unfortunately.
You guys are the heroes we don’t deserve nor need.
Don’t expect people to like you when your job is to distort the discourse their spaces.
I think we should normalize saying scandalous shit without the /s and letting people hit us with a few “did you justs” before we have to actually specify that we’re kidding
America is great again!
Borders are violence.
Labeling everything violence lessens the impact of actual violence.
Well, no, violence is violence, borders are a logical way to filter and control dynamic entry of unknown populations into otherwise stable environments
No
There are no nations, there’s only Humanity, but if we don’t understand this soon there will be no nations, because there will be no Humanity" - Isaac Asimov
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
Isaac Asimov
Fuck that guy, and fuck him double for agreeing with me, and triple for doing it more eloquently than i would’ve.
Borders are a way to filter and control populations in order to better extract resources from them.
Control them with…??m
violence is violenxe, borders aren’t violence
Paper is paper, books aren’t paper
If you’re going to justify your violence by pretending it stops rather than generates other violence, well, that’s still disingenuous/profkubdly uncritical, but in no way does it make them stop being violence.
I think that person is a bot. Someone double-posted by mistake and got the same reply to both messages, but from two completely different accounts, one of them being this one. That doesn’t just happen. Most likely it’s some bot network reacting to a type of message (in this case the message had /s at the end, and the two identical replies were about how “maybe we should say egregious things without the /s to keep people guessing”).
As they should be! What were they up to? Abusing maple trees for the sinful pleasure of “taste”?
Who knows these shades of brown people they might have been exposed to in the multicultural Babylon that is Montreal, or Toronto, or, I mean, Moncton or Amos or Saskatchetoon or Winnipeg or Greenwood, BC?
For God’s sake they might even have been exposed to the Huron, or the Mohawk, or the Anishinaabeg, or any number of other troublemakers with their ridiculous, scurrilous claims.
Better that they be held until it can be confirmed by double-blind study that they are at the very least still capable of breathing without the use of the nasal passage. This is important stuff folks!
Ohh, that was worth a read. This is messier than it looks.
An NZ mother was living legally in the US (work visa) with her kids, who are also legal (but not citizens), in Washington state, but her permit to travel across the Canadian Border had expired because she had purposefully chosen not to renew it.
"When it came time to renew both parts of the combo card, Shaw paid to have the work permit renewed, but didn’t renew the travel permit “because she didn’t have any plans for travel at that time and it’s expensive,”
It wasn’t caught until she went to come home, CBP picked her up and transferred her to ICE who moved them all to Dilly, TX for detention.
Of all the atrocities ICE has been doing, this one, I kinda see. It sucks that her kids are being detained with her, but there’s no legal family in the States.
Obv, with kids involved, you’d like to see them move faster or just deport them to NZ, but she did kinda make that bed herself.
The correct action should be “pay the renewal and an extra for being out of time” and that’s it. Problem solved.
But this is just a way to raise the ICE numbers.
Obviously sitting in jail for 4 weeks for a trial is stupid but I don’t know if I agree with you either. It’s essentially a license. It creates a contract between the US and Canada for that person where we’re vouching for them there are background checks involved. She actively canceled her license, refused to renew the part for travel on purpose.
It’s like if you cancel your driver’s license, then drive around anyway and get caught You’re not going to just be able to pay the MVA $35 while you’re standing there to reinstate your license You’re in trouble for driving without a license.
They don’t say it in the story but I suspect maybe when she crossed over into Canada she did it just on her nz passport like she was just a tourist. But there are different rules for US residents versus NZ residents. They just happen to catch her before she got back.
Like I said in my original post It’s just messy there’s international law here. She’s crossing country borders. If she just flew in from New Zealand She would have just needed a $7 Canadian ETA. Could have done that right on her passport and not had any issues. It’s because she’s US resident that they scrutinized her more.
She didn’t pay us the renewal fee, now WE are paying to house her and her son and I imagine we’ll also be paying for her ticket home. This was a hold for 24 hours and return scenario.
Stop normalizing brutality.
I bet you anything that the loudest voices exclaiming “The punishment should fit the crime” come from the side defending the party of rapist pedophiles.
“The punishment should fit the crime”
Throwing a sandwich? Believe it or not, felony.
Stop being myopic like nothing actually happened here. I said it was messy I didn’t say it was was ideal or great. But normalizing brutality? I’m just going to block you now, We don’t have anything to talk about.
Came here to say you should block me too because I agree with everything they said.
Of all the atrocities ICE has been doing, this one, I kinda see. It sucks that her kids are being detained with her, but there’s no legal family in the States.
No, this is not right. She should have had a hearing and pay a fine at most. What is the point of all of this shit except to brutalize this family?
And why would you say that this is okay?
Do you think that’s not what’s happening? It’s taking them a month to get the hearing because ice is a piece of s***.
This is you.
Of all the atrocities ICE has been doing, this one, I kinda see.
she did do the thing
What thing? Not navigate the needlessly tedious expensive draconian system set up to make sure everyone is always guilty of something?
She had already navigated the damn system. Did you read the article? She literally renewed the other half of the license and didn’t renew this half to save money. She didn’t pay for the extra background check that they do to vouch for the US residents going to Canada.
If you don’t renew your driver’s license and then drive around and get caught you are going to go to court. It’s not draconian it’s normal.
Im saying the system was a bullshit excuse.
This system is bullshit.
Drivers licenses arent gow id do that, but certifying that you mnow how to do a dangeroys thing safely is reasonable. If you miss a test or whatever. But if its just paperwork, criminal penalties are insane.
Boot out of mouth.
Thorward said border officials had the discretion to grant Shaw humanitarian parole rather than detaining her.
There was no need to imprison a non-violent offender who had been doing everything legally and made a mistake in not renewing the travel authorization.
They should’ve released her and given her a mandatory court date.
Is it really necessary to detain them? Let her go back to her spot and await a trial. If the judge rules to deport, do that, otherwise fine them or something. Why do people have to sit in prison over some stupid visa violation.
Because she’s not a citizen, and she has a visa violation. She actually did something unlawful. You can’t cancel your travel visa and then go oh wait I’m just going to travel anyway.
They’re not even letting most people renew work visas right now.
They should have either expedited her case and made a call right there or sent her to New Zealand.
Should have but didn’t. That’s the objectionable part.
It would have been nice if they would have done it but there’s not any legal requirement right.
Other than the rather shitty long wait for the hearing, this is playing out about like it would for decades.
This is NOT “playing out like it would for decades.” Previously you’d be out on bail or released on your own recognizance. Trump’s administration has changed all that and requiring people to be imprisoned for weeks to months. This doesn’t benefit the taxpayer and is keeping visitors away, and damaging our own economy and costing us allies.
Tell me, How about bail be set? Perhaps some kind of hearing?
What is legal and what is ethical are not always the same.
Very true
How does making a mistake on the paperwork justify putting someone in jail for three weeks? And what about the child? This is just wanton cruelty for the sake of it.
Strawman, You made this into something it wasn’t so that would be easier to attack.
She didn’t make a paperwork mistake. She purposely canceled her travel visa and then left the country with her kids, with no other options in the US for legal guardianship.
Right now, if you’re not a US citizen and you’re doing something illegal they are going to crawl up your ass, I wouldn’t even be jaywalking right now in her shoes.
Canceling your travel visa’s living near the Canadian border is not a great idea. Traveling after you cancel it, in this fucking climate? I can’t fucking imagine doing it can you? If the shit hits the fan in the US she can’t even legally escape to Canada. If she wanted out she’d have to go all the way back to New Zealand? Jesus.
Yeah, they shouldn’t have them for four or five weeks cuz you know it’s not going to just be Friday like they’re saying. But she was playing with fire here.
If you all want to get pissed off and blow a gasket start looking at those home Depot raids or them kicking people out of the back of cargo planes to drown the ocean, not bitch about the person who decided to do shit the wrong way and got her ass picked up by the Canadians.
Um, so they need to be detained and/or deported?
There absolutely must be a hearing. It’s not like her visa just expired and she forgot. She purposely didn’t renew it while she was renewing her work visa. And she renewed her work visa again after that so it’s been a while. And the story that she thought it just magically renewed the next time she renewed it doesn’t hold water. She didn’t renew it because it was expensive the next time she renewed it it wasn’t super expensive It was still the work visa only. No question she knew this.
The grim fact is ice is doing so much nefarious shit their hearings are so backed up that it doesn’t happen in a reasonable amount of time. There are a lot of hearings ahead of hers. And unfortunately a lot of them probably have kids with them too. I shudder the think how many children we have locked up in shit holes down there in the name of “immigration”.
If they can’t give her an expedited hearing to not keep the children in jail they should have sent her to NZ with them. There was nobody in the US that could have taken the kids legally, and there’s no way she is getting away crossing borders without legal status and just slinking back into the US like nothing happened.
Odds are, if she did this back before crazy town was in office she had a pretty good chance of getting deported back then too.
You have to understand, from Canada’s perspective she came into the country illegally, Even if it was partially there fuckup. I’d like to think that Canada would turn a blind eye given the situation and let her back out without incident, and that’s probably what she thought too.
To be honest, Canada should have given her the choice of going back to NZ. It would have been inconvenient AF, but she could have flown back legally at that point and not been on the hook for anything.
Am I having a stroke?? I’m really missing where she entered canada illegally. People keep saying she did but I don’t think it says that anywhere. Can someone help me out?
My understanding is that she’s a NZ citizen, which means she doesn’t need a visa to enter canada.
Edit: canada sucks too and they absolutely detain children in horrific conditions for indeterminate amounts of time too, but people saying they made the states do the dirty work for them here, I don’t get it.
I just don’t understand what the rationale would be for holding anyone in prison. Send them home and tell them when their hearing is.
She’s in jail, not prison, waiting a hearing to see if she’s going to get to stay here. and she broke international law.
It sucks, but she really shouldn’t have done that.
Adding insult to injury she’s not making money to pay her rent, or able to work for the company that was sponsoring her work visa. So even after all of this she might end up having to go back to NZ.
She’s in jail, not prison,
Aww fuck right off with this pedantic horseshit.
They’re very different. I’ve been in both.
That’s not the point. Don’t be pedantic. The point is that she shouldn’t be in custody at all. They had the option of letting her go home with a court date. They chose to lock her up for weeks instead.
Careful, don’t agree with me they’re having too much fun circle jerking. Let em go, they’re enjoying themselves.
Umm. no. her permit to cross to canada involves canada. Canadian ice can deal with it. Instead they farm it out to american nazis?
It wasn’t again the laws of Canada for her to be there, but she tried to enter the US after violating the conditions of her permit.
I’m defending the existence of the border, but your take doesn’t really make sense.
is the permit to go into canada not canada’s concern only?
What permit to go to Canada?
I mean, you can blame Canada if you want.
She left the US without a travel visa did something illegal in Canada got caught. It deserves a hearing they’re just taking f****** forever.
Correction: she visited Canada legally, but did not obtain the correct re-entry permit for the US side. She had status to be in the US and to work there, but not to enter the US from outside. It’s the States’ silly immigration laws that were broken and what she was disproportionately punished for.
Then why was she stopped at the CBP instead of the US?
CBP stands for the United States Customs and Border Patrol.
Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) are the lovely fellas you can get in trouble with on our end.
And why was she detained instead of refused?
As I said in the original post it’s just f****** messy
Yeah, this would happen under basically any administration. If you can’t travel legally, then just, don’t? I mean, pretty sure she didn’t need to go to Canada. Still sucks though. Edit: I missed the 3 weeks part. That’s really bad.
Yeah, this would happen under basically any administration.
No, most administrations would recognize she’s not a threat and would let her go home and make her attend a court date in the future to sort it out. Locking her up for weeks doesn’t protect anyone and it doesn’t solve anything. They’re doing it just to be cruel.
Yeah, the several weeks is a lot. But this also seems to be directly caused by her knowingly not renewing her permit. Not saying it was right, but especially right now? Pretty forseeable imo. People have been locked up for significantly less. It sucks, she and her kid shouldn’t have been detained.
Yeah, it’ll be kids in jail for a month and God knows what conditions that dilly facility is in.
Traveling on a well expired visa is going to get you a hearing, and with all the other shenanigans they have going on that’s taking a lot longer than it should. Without any legal family in the States they’re either going to be detained with her or put in social services. I wonder if the grandparents could have managed to take them until it was sorted.
The lesson for everyone to learn here is don’t go to america.
I hope she has now learnt that lesson.Yeah, It’s definitely not a good move, and anyone that is here needs to make sure they have every opportunity available to get the f*** out if they need to
