History shows that if the Dems regain full control, they will not reverse all this carnage 100%. They will reverse maybe 25% of it and pretend the rest isn’t happening and maybe claim they don’t have enough control and we’ll hear the term bipartisan.
That’s why I don’t even fucking vote anymore. When they DO have some ability to improve things, they barely do. Biden proved to be exactly the slow-moving watered-down change I expected.
Fuck em all. And fuck you when you tell me how wrong I am. I really don’t give a fuck.
Put up serious change on the ticket or I’ll just roll my eyes again.
The top part is true, but reversing 25% is something and it’s not a constant flow of more carnage. If you don’t give a fuck, then you are basically pro carnage since you are doing nothing to stop it, but fuck me right?
Also you can vote for who Dems up on the ticket in the primary. New York voters showed the rest of the country that it’s possible.
Where I have lived for my adult life in 3 significantly different parts of the country, it is true that my vote would have not at all affected the outcome on nearly all election positions I could vote for.
This was true multiple elections in a row. Whether my vote merely reaffirmed what was clearly going to happen regardless, or if mine was a waste since it was clearly not going to matter. In the vast majority of elections I did or could have voted in, I have looked after the fact and seen how my contribution, or lack of, Did. Not. Fucking. Matter.
Also most options I am presented with most of the time are uninspiring or downright evil.
As for effecting change. That’s a waste of time. I learned that early on. Everyone has their viewpoints and beliefs and the vast majority will not be swayed. They either will not change, or were already on your side.
Its not my responsibility to “solve” America’s 250 years of lies.
So have fun on your high horse as you highlight one cherry-picked recent primary result for one city in a country filled with 90,000 governments and countless elected positions.
In the vast majority of elections I did or could have voted in, I have looked after the fact and seen how my contribution, or lack of, Did. Not. Fucking. Matter.
Elections are almost never decided by a single vote, do you think your vote only matters if it’s the deciding vote? I’ve watched so many election votes counts and so often I see evil win because the vote total for the lesser evil just didn’t bother to vote that eletcion. I’ve also seen areas flip because enough people think their vote doesn’t matter because it’s a “safe seat” until it isn’t. Why be one of those people, just vote every time. There will be an election this November that almost no one will vote in. I’ve seen vote totals in the 100s and elections decided by less than 10 votes. It would be so easy to sway the results if just a handful more people voted.
Also most options I am presented with most of the time are uninspiring or downright evil.
Vote for the lesser evil otherwise you are more likely to get the greater evil.
Its not my responsibility to “solve” America’s 250 years of lies.
I’m not asking or expecting you to, I just want you to vote. Voting doesn’t solve things it’s just a tug of war and I want more people constantly tugging for the lesser evil.
So have fun on your high horse as you highlight one cherry-picked recent primary result for one city in a country filled with 90,000 governments and countless elected positions.
It’s to show you that if you turn out, you can affect elections. You aren’t the only person with your belief that voting doesn’t matter, there are tons of you. If you all get out and vote you’ll make a difference, but it starts with you.
Just for the sake of discussion, I think there’s a real argument to be made that reversing 25% is actually worse than doing nothing, because it makes people complacent. “Controlled opposition”, if you will.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily always the case, there are obviously tangible benefits to reducing some of the damage. But if it comes with allowing even more damage to be done later, because the changes are superficial and don’t address the ways in which the right extremists can manipulate the political system, then people might be fooled into thinking the system still works and the long run consequences would be even more severe than if they realised it doesn’t.
And if you fully realise that the political system doesn’t work then I don’t think it entirely makes sense to get on someone’s case about voting or not. Not that they shouldn’t, but there are much bigger issues.
That’s literally the first thing you said. Everything else you’ve said is just doomer shit or that you should leave but also you aren’t? So you are advocating for what exactly??? 🤔
My only point is I think there’s actually better stuff to focus on than whether people voted or not. I think it’s probably on the whole better to vote for the democrats than not vote. But I think there are good faith arguments against it and what really matters is more active ways of fighting fascism.
So, I agree with you that we need to do more, especially now, but that also includes voting too. Voting is bare minimum, if people can’t vote, I can’t see them doing much else.
If they can do other more impactful things without voting then I’m all for it, but voting itself does not take away from doing more.
Like for example, New Yorkers voting for Mamdani in this upcoming election is great, especially because it shows the nation that as a whole we can swing the total opposite direction.
Yeah, I basically agree with your first paragraph, but the point I was trying to make is that I do see people doing much else. I do know people who reject voting but spend a lot of time and energy doing organising and activism. Whether or not that applies to the other poster on this thread, I feel it’s better not to overly shame people for not having voted. Life sucks and people rationalise the dumb stuff they do in all sorts of crazy ways. I’d prefer to talk about something more positive.
Mamdani seems cool. It’s nice to see someone win on a straight affordability campaign without openly throwing marginalised people under the bus. Of course, it’s NY. But it shows it’s something we could unite around.
Hoky shit, way to prove to that person (and the rest of us) that you really didn’t read all of their post… The last statement makes it obvious they’re espousing an entirely different angle.
There’s a difference between being “committed to not stop the fire” and recognizing my tools at my disposal don’t work for me.
A better version of your example is more like my single fire extinguisher might help me with some of my fire, but it turns out my neighbors lit the whole fucking neighborhood on fire, so rather than fighting my little fire and exhausting myself pointlessly, I chose to walk out and acknowledge I can’t make a difference here.
If anything I should move out of the neighborhood but that’s a luxury I don’t have.
“the problem is that people don’t fully support the Democrats unconditionally. Not that the Democrats only run on being ‘Republican Lite’ and Republican voters wont support the Lite option when full calorie is on the menu”
Honestly, you’re not giving enough credit to everything they do to make things worse. Between
-Clinton throwing money and resources at shitty ISPs and intellectual property ghouls in the 90s,
-Obama putting legal niceties on Bush’s assassination program and making sure nobody got held accountable for those murders,
-Obama keeping every NSA spying program intact,
-Obama throwing taxpayer money at private health insurance companies,
-Biden killing stimulus checks (because obviously nobody supports UBI),
-Biden throwing taxpayer money at fossil fuel companies,
-Biden throwing money at ICE,
-Biden throwing money at cops of all sorts,
-etc.,
they have done a ton to entrench bad things and undermine good things too.
You should probably still vote for them because there’s nothing on this list Republicans wouldn’t try to turbocharge, but if we don’t get rid of the awful Dems we have now and replace them with people who are actually willing to fight for us it’s actually just a choice between carnage quickly or carnage slowly
Are you implying I should give a shit about something here? Cause I really don’t. Try harder with an actual argument rather than an idiot popularity vote.
History shows that if the Dems regain full control, they will not reverse all this carnage 100%. They will reverse maybe 25% of it and pretend the rest isn’t happening and maybe claim they don’t have enough control and we’ll hear the term bipartisan.
That’s why I think we should keep the carnage at 100%
Always astonishing to me that I am either being cut lightly a thousand times or fucking gutted by a fish, and I’m angry about all of it and you all seem to think the mature answer is to be grateful for the light cutting cause it’s “better” by comparison.
“A person can be smart, but people are stupid.”
Most people are complete utter fucking morons about this. Enjoy voting for slower death and somehow finding a smugness in it.
Don’t complain. You said the options were 100% carnage, or 75% carnage, and because there’s no 0% carnage option, you’re happy letting 100% win. What people are trying to explain to you is that you should reduce harm as much as possible, even if you can’t reduce it entirely.
The entire point of the Biden and Biden/Harris campaign was to make Trump term 1 bipartisan. “No, if you hate immigrants, you should vote for me. Because Democrats fill out the paperwork properly and like bureaucracy, so ICE will work more efficiently and the Wall will be built better, faster and cheaper” - Both Biden and Harris campaigns
History shows that if the Dems regain full control, they will not reverse all this carnage 100%. They will reverse maybe 25% of it and pretend the rest isn’t happening and maybe claim they don’t have enough control and we’ll hear the term bipartisan.
That’s why I don’t even fucking vote anymore. When they DO have some ability to improve things, they barely do. Biden proved to be exactly the slow-moving watered-down change I expected.
Fuck em all. And fuck you when you tell me how wrong I am. I really don’t give a fuck.
Put up serious change on the ticket or I’ll just roll my eyes again.
The top part is true, but reversing 25% is something and it’s not a constant flow of more carnage. If you don’t give a fuck, then you are basically pro carnage since you are doing nothing to stop it, but fuck me right?
Also you can vote for who Dems up on the ticket in the primary. New York voters showed the rest of the country that it’s possible.
Where I have lived for my adult life in 3 significantly different parts of the country, it is true that my vote would have not at all affected the outcome on nearly all election positions I could vote for.
This was true multiple elections in a row. Whether my vote merely reaffirmed what was clearly going to happen regardless, or if mine was a waste since it was clearly not going to matter. In the vast majority of elections I did or could have voted in, I have looked after the fact and seen how my contribution, or lack of, Did. Not. Fucking. Matter.
Also most options I am presented with most of the time are uninspiring or downright evil.
As for effecting change. That’s a waste of time. I learned that early on. Everyone has their viewpoints and beliefs and the vast majority will not be swayed. They either will not change, or were already on your side.
Its not my responsibility to “solve” America’s 250 years of lies.
So have fun on your high horse as you highlight one cherry-picked recent primary result for one city in a country filled with 90,000 governments and countless elected positions.
Elections are almost never decided by a single vote, do you think your vote only matters if it’s the deciding vote? I’ve watched so many election votes counts and so often I see evil win because the vote total for the lesser evil just didn’t bother to vote that eletcion. I’ve also seen areas flip because enough people think their vote doesn’t matter because it’s a “safe seat” until it isn’t. Why be one of those people, just vote every time. There will be an election this November that almost no one will vote in. I’ve seen vote totals in the 100s and elections decided by less than 10 votes. It would be so easy to sway the results if just a handful more people voted.
Vote for the lesser evil otherwise you are more likely to get the greater evil.
I’m not asking or expecting you to, I just want you to vote. Voting doesn’t solve things it’s just a tug of war and I want more people constantly tugging for the lesser evil.
It’s to show you that if you turn out, you can affect elections. You aren’t the only person with your belief that voting doesn’t matter, there are tons of you. If you all get out and vote you’ll make a difference, but it starts with you.
No.
Just for the sake of discussion, I think there’s a real argument to be made that reversing 25% is actually worse than doing nothing, because it makes people complacent. “Controlled opposition”, if you will.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily always the case, there are obviously tangible benefits to reducing some of the damage. But if it comes with allowing even more damage to be done later, because the changes are superficial and don’t address the ways in which the right extremists can manipulate the political system, then people might be fooled into thinking the system still works and the long run consequences would be even more severe than if they realised it doesn’t.
And if you fully realise that the political system doesn’t work then I don’t think it entirely makes sense to get on someone’s case about voting or not. Not that they shouldn’t, but there are much bigger issues.
Ah yeah that’s why not voting is gonna help. Doing less instead of more, good idea pal 👍
So what I’m reading is, there’s two approaches, neither of which have solved fuck all, therefore everyone is wrong.
That’s not what I said, why bother replying if you didn’t read my comment?
That’s literally the first thing you said. Everything else you’ve said is just doomer shit or that you should leave but also you aren’t? So you are advocating for what exactly??? 🤔
I’m not that person, check the usernames.
My only point is I think there’s actually better stuff to focus on than whether people voted or not. I think it’s probably on the whole better to vote for the democrats than not vote. But I think there are good faith arguments against it and what really matters is more active ways of fighting fascism.
Oops that’s my bad, I’m sorry.
So, I agree with you that we need to do more, especially now, but that also includes voting too. Voting is bare minimum, if people can’t vote, I can’t see them doing much else.
If they can do other more impactful things without voting then I’m all for it, but voting itself does not take away from doing more.
Like for example, New Yorkers voting for Mamdani in this upcoming election is great, especially because it shows the nation that as a whole we can swing the total opposite direction.
No worries, it happens.
Yeah, I basically agree with your first paragraph, but the point I was trying to make is that I do see people doing much else. I do know people who reject voting but spend a lot of time and energy doing organising and activism. Whether or not that applies to the other poster on this thread, I feel it’s better not to overly shame people for not having voted. Life sucks and people rationalise the dumb stuff they do in all sorts of crazy ways. I’d prefer to talk about something more positive.
Mamdani seems cool. It’s nice to see someone win on a straight affordability campaign without openly throwing marginalised people under the bus. Of course, it’s NY. But it shows it’s something we could unite around.
Hoky shit, way to prove to that person (and the rest of us) that you really didn’t read all of their post… The last statement makes it obvious they’re espousing an entirely different angle.
The 25% nonsense is purely vibes based anyway. They don’t reverse anything. Even liberals recognize this with their ‘ratchet’ memes
Theres a fire in my kitchen, but the fire extinguisher is only going to stop like 25% of the damage, so I’m committed to not stopping the fire.
To be clear, I also don’t support the fire. But the fire extinguisher is:
So the best thing for me and my kitchen is to do nothing until they make a “fix my kitchen” spray.
When you need the fire department but are only allowed to die trying to fight the out of control blaze or die throwing gas on it.
There’s a difference between being “committed to not stop the fire” and recognizing my tools at my disposal don’t work for me.
A better version of your example is more like my single fire extinguisher might help me with some of my fire, but it turns out my neighbors lit the whole fucking neighborhood on fire, so rather than fighting my little fire and exhausting myself pointlessly, I chose to walk out and acknowledge I can’t make a difference here.
If anything I should move out of the neighborhood but that’s a luxury I don’t have.
This would be an argument for not attending protests or volunteering. But voting takes basically no fucking effort.
That’s a privileged take. The right wing has made voting a lot fucking harder for certain groups in certain places.
I was with you in the first half, until you said you don’t vote. You’re as much to blame for this shit as anyone
My vote in the last election LITERALLY WOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED A GOD DAMNED THING.
Get the fuck over yourself and just let your high horse fuck you in the ass. Take your idealism elsewhere. Fucking exhausting.
Defeatist prick
“the problem is that people don’t fully support the Democrats unconditionally. Not that the Democrats only run on being ‘Republican Lite’ and Republican voters wont support the Lite option when full calorie is on the menu”
That’s you.
TIL you can commit a genocide without crossing the ‘fascism’ line
Implies my vote would have changed the outcome. But it wouldn’t have, and didn’t in some past cases. So no, you’re fucking dead wrong.
Honestly, you’re not giving enough credit to everything they do to make things worse. Between
-Clinton throwing money and resources at shitty ISPs and intellectual property ghouls in the 90s, -Obama putting legal niceties on Bush’s assassination program and making sure nobody got held accountable for those murders, -Obama keeping every NSA spying program intact, -Obama throwing taxpayer money at private health insurance companies, -Biden killing stimulus checks (because obviously nobody supports UBI), -Biden throwing taxpayer money at fossil fuel companies, -Biden throwing money at ICE, -Biden throwing money at cops of all sorts, -etc.,
they have done a ton to entrench bad things and undermine good things too.
You should probably still vote for them because there’s nothing on this list Republicans wouldn’t try to turbocharge, but if we don’t get rid of the awful Dems we have now and replace them with people who are actually willing to fight for us it’s actually just a choice between carnage quickly or carnage slowly
Are you implying I should give a shit about something here? Cause I really don’t. Try harder with an actual argument rather than an idiot popularity vote.
no i was just being unfunny and pointing out how at the moment i took the screenshot, the upvote-downvote counters were literally 1984
Weird take but ok
Always astonishing to me that I am either being cut lightly a thousand times or fucking gutted by a fish, and I’m angry about all of it and you all seem to think the mature answer is to be grateful for the light cutting cause it’s “better” by comparison.
“A person can be smart, but people are stupid.”
Most people are complete utter fucking morons about this. Enjoy voting for slower death and somehow finding a smugness in it.
Don’t complain. You said the options were 100% carnage, or 75% carnage, and because there’s no 0% carnage option, you’re happy letting 100% win. What people are trying to explain to you is that you should reduce harm as much as possible, even if you can’t reduce it entirely.
The entire point of the Biden and Biden/Harris campaign was to make Trump term 1 bipartisan. “No, if you hate immigrants, you should vote for me. Because Democrats fill out the paperwork properly and like bureaucracy, so ICE will work more efficiently and the Wall will be built better, faster and cheaper” - Both Biden and Harris campaigns