Just for the sake of discussion, I think there’s a real argument to be made that reversing 25% is actually worse than doing nothing, because it makes people complacent. “Controlled opposition”, if you will.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily always the case, there are obviously tangible benefits to reducing some of the damage. But if it comes with allowing even more damage to be done later, because the changes are superficial and don’t address the ways in which the right extremists can manipulate the political system, then people might be fooled into thinking the system still works and the long run consequences would be even more severe than if they realised it doesn’t.
And if you fully realise that the political system doesn’t work then I don’t think it entirely makes sense to get on someone’s case about voting or not. Not that they shouldn’t, but there are much bigger issues.
That’s literally the first thing you said. Everything else you’ve said is just doomer shit or that you should leave but also you aren’t? So you are advocating for what exactly??? 🤔
My only point is I think there’s actually better stuff to focus on than whether people voted or not. I think it’s probably on the whole better to vote for the democrats than not vote. But I think there are good faith arguments against it and what really matters is more active ways of fighting fascism.
So, I agree with you that we need to do more, especially now, but that also includes voting too. Voting is bare minimum, if people can’t vote, I can’t see them doing much else.
If they can do other more impactful things without voting then I’m all for it, but voting itself does not take away from doing more.
Like for example, New Yorkers voting for Mamdani in this upcoming election is great, especially because it shows the nation that as a whole we can swing the total opposite direction.
Yeah, I basically agree with your first paragraph, but the point I was trying to make is that I do see people doing much else. I do know people who reject voting but spend a lot of time and energy doing organising and activism. Whether or not that applies to the other poster on this thread, I feel it’s better not to overly shame people for not having voted. Life sucks and people rationalise the dumb stuff they do in all sorts of crazy ways. I’d prefer to talk about something more positive.
Mamdani seems cool. It’s nice to see someone win on a straight affordability campaign without openly throwing marginalised people under the bus. Of course, it’s NY. But it shows it’s something we could unite around.
Hoky shit, way to prove to that person (and the rest of us) that you really didn’t read all of their post… The last statement makes it obvious they’re espousing an entirely different angle.
Just for the sake of discussion, I think there’s a real argument to be made that reversing 25% is actually worse than doing nothing, because it makes people complacent. “Controlled opposition”, if you will.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily always the case, there are obviously tangible benefits to reducing some of the damage. But if it comes with allowing even more damage to be done later, because the changes are superficial and don’t address the ways in which the right extremists can manipulate the political system, then people might be fooled into thinking the system still works and the long run consequences would be even more severe than if they realised it doesn’t.
And if you fully realise that the political system doesn’t work then I don’t think it entirely makes sense to get on someone’s case about voting or not. Not that they shouldn’t, but there are much bigger issues.
The 25% nonsense is purely vibes based anyway. They don’t reverse anything. Even liberals recognize this with their ‘ratchet’ memes
Ah yeah that’s why not voting is gonna help. Doing less instead of more, good idea pal 👍
That’s not what I said, why bother replying if you didn’t read my comment?
That’s literally the first thing you said. Everything else you’ve said is just doomer shit or that you should leave but also you aren’t? So you are advocating for what exactly??? 🤔
I’m not that person, check the usernames.
My only point is I think there’s actually better stuff to focus on than whether people voted or not. I think it’s probably on the whole better to vote for the democrats than not vote. But I think there are good faith arguments against it and what really matters is more active ways of fighting fascism.
Oops that’s my bad, I’m sorry.
So, I agree with you that we need to do more, especially now, but that also includes voting too. Voting is bare minimum, if people can’t vote, I can’t see them doing much else.
If they can do other more impactful things without voting then I’m all for it, but voting itself does not take away from doing more.
Like for example, New Yorkers voting for Mamdani in this upcoming election is great, especially because it shows the nation that as a whole we can swing the total opposite direction.
No worries, it happens.
Yeah, I basically agree with your first paragraph, but the point I was trying to make is that I do see people doing much else. I do know people who reject voting but spend a lot of time and energy doing organising and activism. Whether or not that applies to the other poster on this thread, I feel it’s better not to overly shame people for not having voted. Life sucks and people rationalise the dumb stuff they do in all sorts of crazy ways. I’d prefer to talk about something more positive.
Mamdani seems cool. It’s nice to see someone win on a straight affordability campaign without openly throwing marginalised people under the bus. Of course, it’s NY. But it shows it’s something we could unite around.
Hoky shit, way to prove to that person (and the rest of us) that you really didn’t read all of their post… The last statement makes it obvious they’re espousing an entirely different angle.
So what I’m reading is, there’s two approaches, neither of which have solved fuck all, therefore everyone is wrong.