I think the issue is not having a desktop-type computer at all and having a tablet/phone that’s so locked down the kid isn’t given the opportunity to explore or troubleshoot.
Tinkering is how you learn to solve problems, which requires having something tinker-able without having to go down a hacky rabbithole.
I know a bit about teaching about computers/programming to kids in the first years of high school. Their understanding of anything computer is abysmal. They have grown up with smartphones and maybe tablet, never were able to tinker with anything. Even just what internet is was confusing to them. It had to be reframed as “when can you watch youtube” for it to make sense…
Great read, exactly what I experienced. On the other hand, we also really want to think about what knowledge is really important. Is knowing the difference between Internet and World Wide Web necessary? Or is programming in a random language? Knowledge is power, but there is just so much you can learn. Starting knowing that you don’t know and it’s not magic is, to me, already a great step, because from there you can learn. Expecting everything to be prepackaged is instead a very passive approach, and that should be discouraged.
Yeah, that “what to absolutely learn” line needs to be established. Basic knowledge of fixing and troubleshooting absolutely should be taught, while scripting and programming is probably not a high priority for many people. Maybe financial/business interested students could learn some scripting, but art and literature students won’t really care.
I’m Gen Z, and I cringe at both my classmates and alpha-cusp cousins, my millennial aunts, my xillenial dad, and my boomer grandparents, one of which taught college classes on how to use computers back in the 80s, so idk what happened there…
In the case of my classmates, I can understand that if you’re too poor to have a home computer with Windows or Mac, then you won’t have many opportunities for computer literacy, cause we used heavily locked-down Chromebooks from 5-12th grade, and while my college library has Windows desktops, I’m not sure if the rental laptops are Windows or Chrome. But grown adults had computer lab, so what happened there?
But still, I’ve seen mind numbing shit like using the caps key instead of shift when typing (ON PURPOSE, by the way), not using any kind of ad block, not knowing where shit is in phone settings, hell, asking for chargers is “iPhone or Android charger” or “round or flat charger” instead of USB C or lightning.
Troubleshooting is such a big one! Like, you should be able to distinguish between a “I can fix it” issue, a “somebody can fix it” issue and a “my computer burned to the ground” situation… and act accordingly. I’m also okay with the first option being very limited! But please Google your problem until you vaguely understand what’s wrong.
From the educators perspective, they get a lot more brain rot. They dropped in in-person socialization, long and medium term concentration and literacy of any type. I haven’t heard any positives yet… but I also fear that with every year, I am getting closer to the trope of “back in my days”-shake walking cane. So, hopefully someone comes to tell me I’m missing something
Witnessed a radiology resident typing her password into a computer and for each uppercase letter she would press shift-lock, type the letter, then press shift-lock again.
I couldn’t figure it out until my mom pointed out she probably only ever used a phone or tablet.
Which is crazy, because I can’t imagine getting through high school, college, and medical school without ever working on a desktop computer.
I think the issue is not having a desktop-type computer at all and having a tablet/phone that’s so locked down the kid isn’t given the opportunity to explore or troubleshoot
True. That being said, I’m pretty sure that a Mac is roughly at the middle point between that and a Windows PC, with Linux users being way more tech savvy still.
In fact, so much exploration and troubleshooting being REQUIRED to make most if not all Linux distros do what you want is (along with game compatibility/availability) the main reason for many people who are sick of Windows to be hesitant to make the switch, myself included.
I’ve been told that exact thing dozens of times with different “just install it and it does everything for you” distro recommendations, and it hasn’t been the case with any of the ones I’ve tried.
I’m not saying that people are lying to me or anything like that, I just think that people underestimate how used they are to using Linux and thus overestimate how easy it is for people who aren’t.
Right now, I have Zorin OS on my laptop since that’s supposed to be THE easiest one for refugees from Windows to use, and while I’m liking it so far, I’m nowhere near being ready for it to replace Windows on my desktop yet.
I don’t even use Linux often, since my institution require me to run windows i use linux rarely.
Zorin OS has just a better ““marketing”” than other distros, the only plus it has is having a familiar GUI and a big community.
some features of bazzite (you can check everthing in bazzite.gg)
Roll back: after every update the previous version of the operating system is retained on your machine. Should an update cause any issues, you can select the previous image at boot time.
SELinux (a more secure version of Linux, it was originally made by both the NSA and redhat) with Secure Boot support
It’s more focused in gaming but it work well even in non-gaming situations
Also, it should be harder to break but i think you need to install apps from flatpak (a software store) instead of the package manager tho, i don’t remember well.
I don’t say it’s the easiest one, i just say it’s the one i suggest, do what you want, try what you want.
Thought, those plus are more common than what you think (usually because making a good looking GUI is easy on Linux and because most of the distros are derivates of Debian, Arch, Fedora or some other famous distro) so yeah, i wouldn’t say it’s the best one for begginer, thought i admit it’s polished and i would probably use it
Seconding a rec for Bazzite, but please don’t make people think that distros this are a silver bullet. I’ve been running Bazzite for months, and while my experience is MOSTLY issue free, I did have to spend quite a while trying to figure out why certain flatpack apps refused to run sometimes on boot. Still don’t know what I did to fix my issue, and it’s working reliably, so I’m not going to touch it…
It’s not issue-less but it’s pretty much a “work out-of-the box” expirience , you will have 2/3 problems like in EVERY other OSes, you can’t say that you didn’t had some problems on Windows or macOS
A background of tinkering with stuff without fear of the consequences of breaking it (which is a common mindset mainly amongst kids and teens) is the difference between a tool-maker and a tool-user, IMHO, and thinkering is far more natural to start doing and to do much further with an open system than with a closed system.
I think the issue is not having a desktop-type computer at all and having a tablet/phone that’s so locked down the kid isn’t given the opportunity to explore or troubleshoot.
Tinkering is how you learn to solve problems, which requires having something tinker-able without having to go down a hacky rabbithole.
I know a bit about teaching about computers/programming to kids in the first years of high school. Their understanding of anything computer is abysmal. They have grown up with smartphones and maybe tablet, never were able to tinker with anything. Even just what internet is was confusing to them. It had to be reframed as “when can you watch youtube” for it to make sense…
Anytime this topic comes up, I reshare this blog post. With things being “that bad” over a decade ago, I can’t imagine how much worse it’s gotten.
http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/
Great read, exactly what I experienced. On the other hand, we also really want to think about what knowledge is really important. Is knowing the difference between Internet and World Wide Web necessary? Or is programming in a random language? Knowledge is power, but there is just so much you can learn. Starting knowing that you don’t know and it’s not magic is, to me, already a great step, because from there you can learn. Expecting everything to be prepackaged is instead a very passive approach, and that should be discouraged.
Yeah, that “what to absolutely learn” line needs to be established. Basic knowledge of fixing and troubleshooting absolutely should be taught, while scripting and programming is probably not a high priority for many people. Maybe financial/business interested students could learn some scripting, but art and literature students won’t really care.
I’m Gen Z, and I cringe at both my classmates and alpha-cusp cousins, my millennial aunts, my xillenial dad, and my boomer grandparents, one of which taught college classes on how to use computers back in the 80s, so idk what happened there…
In the case of my classmates, I can understand that if you’re too poor to have a home computer with Windows or Mac, then you won’t have many opportunities for computer literacy, cause we used heavily locked-down Chromebooks from 5-12th grade, and while my college library has Windows desktops, I’m not sure if the rental laptops are Windows or Chrome. But grown adults had computer lab, so what happened there?
But still, I’ve seen mind numbing shit like using the caps key instead of shift when typing (ON PURPOSE, by the way), not using any kind of ad block, not knowing where shit is in phone settings, hell, asking for chargers is “iPhone or Android charger” or “round or flat charger” instead of USB C or lightning.
Troubleshooting is such a big one! Like, you should be able to distinguish between a “I can fix it” issue, a “somebody can fix it” issue and a “my computer burned to the ground” situation… and act accordingly. I’m also okay with the first option being very limited! But please Google your problem until you vaguely understand what’s wrong.
Like kids back in the 1980s ☺️ many couldn’t even read a floppy on the C64!
I wonder if they, I mean today’s kids, learn other things we miss out on.
From the educators perspective, they get a lot more brain rot. They dropped in in-person socialization, long and medium term concentration and literacy of any type. I haven’t heard any positives yet… but I also fear that with every year, I am getting closer to the trope of “back in my days”-shake walking cane. So, hopefully someone comes to tell me I’m missing something
Witnessed a radiology resident typing her password into a computer and for each uppercase letter she would press shift-lock, type the letter, then press shift-lock again.
I couldn’t figure it out until my mom pointed out she probably only ever used a phone or tablet.
Which is crazy, because I can’t imagine getting through high school, college, and medical school without ever working on a desktop computer.
True. That being said, I’m pretty sure that a Mac is roughly at the middle point between that and a Windows PC, with Linux users being way more tech savvy still.
In fact, so much exploration and troubleshooting being REQUIRED to make most if not all Linux distros do what you want is (along with game compatibility/availability) the main reason for many people who are sick of Windows to be hesitant to make the switch, myself included.
You don’t really need to tinker too much tbf, install distros like Bazzite and you have all done pratically
I’ve been told that exact thing dozens of times with different “just install it and it does everything for you” distro recommendations, and it hasn’t been the case with any of the ones I’ve tried.
I’m not saying that people are lying to me or anything like that, I just think that people underestimate how used they are to using Linux and thus overestimate how easy it is for people who aren’t.
Right now, I have Zorin OS on my laptop since that’s supposed to be THE easiest one for refugees from Windows to use, and while I’m liking it so far, I’m nowhere near being ready for it to replace Windows on my desktop yet.
I don’t even use Linux often, since my institution require me to run windows i use linux rarely.
Zorin OS has just a better ““marketing”” than other distros, the only plus it has is having a familiar GUI and a big community.
some features of bazzite (you can check everthing in bazzite.gg)
It’s more focused in gaming but it work well even in non-gaming situations
Also, it should be harder to break but i think you need to install apps from flatpak (a software store) instead of the package manager tho, i don’t remember well.
I don’t say it’s the easiest one, i just say it’s the one i suggest, do what you want, try what you want.
Those are exceptionally good plusses, though.
In fact, it’s the number one and number two requirements for easing the passage between systems, which is why I chose Zorin.
Thought, those plus are more common than what you think (usually because making a good looking GUI is easy on Linux and because most of the distros are derivates of Debian, Arch, Fedora or some other famous distro) so yeah, i wouldn’t say it’s the best one for begginer, thought i admit it’s polished and i would probably use it
Seconding a rec for Bazzite, but please don’t make people think that distros this are a silver bullet. I’ve been running Bazzite for months, and while my experience is MOSTLY issue free, I did have to spend quite a while trying to figure out why certain flatpack apps refused to run sometimes on boot. Still don’t know what I did to fix my issue, and it’s working reliably, so I’m not going to touch it…
It’s not issue-less but it’s pretty much a “work out-of-the box” expirience , you will have 2/3 problems like in EVERY other OSes, you can’t say that you didn’t had some problems on Windows or macOS
Exactly.
A background of tinkering with stuff without fear of the consequences of breaking it (which is a common mindset mainly amongst kids and teens) is the difference between a tool-maker and a tool-user, IMHO, and thinkering is far more natural to start doing and to do much further with an open system than with a closed system.