So the confusion here comes from the application of the term ‘essential’
The reason humans differentiate between essential/not is because it is “essential” for us to ingest those amino acids directly in our diet, because we cannot synthesize them ourselves.
Gorillas do not have a separate “essential” category because they can synthesize everything they need. This is not to suggest they do not physiologically “need” the ones we deem as essential, simply that they can make them.
As an aside, the special thing you’re thinking of is just their gut bacteria. There’s a ton of specific biological information I left out as the comment was already getting too long, and I didn’t really feel like the exact mechanism of action there was critical
Apologies, yes, the non-essential aminos need to be synthesized from protein specifically, which gorillas typically consume in abundance. Edited my post to clarify this issue, thank you
What are you talking about. Pretty much every animal lacks the ability to synthesize certain amino acids. No animal can rearrange the carbon skeletons of 11 out of the 21 amino acids relevant to animal protein (cysteine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, tyrosine, and valine), so the ability to synthesize certain amino acids necessarily relies on the presence of the amino acids that share the same carbon structure. See here, which talks about the essential/non-essential categorization as being outdated and needing to be understood as a sliding scale in which synthesizing even non-essential amino acids carries a cost, and that eating complete proteins in a species-appropriate ratio is still necessary for animals to thrive.
Gorillas consume something like 20-30% of their calories from protein depending on the ratio of low protein fruit to high protein leaves in their diets. Their plant food sources just don’t have all that much in the way of energy, so even the small amounts of protein in any given leaf is made up for the fact that they’re eating up to 40 kg of food per day.
The truth is, gorillas do consume quite a bit of protein. Plant matter, like pretty much any living organism, has protein. Leaves are relatively high in protein compared to other plant foods. Let’s not forget, broccoli has more protein per 100 calories than steaks do.
So no, gorillas are not capable of freely synthesizing the amino acids they need. The truth is that they’re eating a lot of protein from various sources at different amino acid ratios and using those amino acids pretty efficiently.
Why are people so rude when critiquing a bodybuilding gorilla post on a shit posting community?
Anyway, as I have apologized to the other user who took umbrage with my glossing over of a particular biological detail, so now I apologize to you. Yes, you are correct that the essential amino acids are not synthesized out of just anything, but through a specific process which requires other amino acids acquired through the breakdown of protein consumed in the diet. I have edited my post to provide specific clarify to this point.
Have you read my post? Because the back half of your comment simply restates what I was saying about their diet. Thank you for providing supporting links.
Finally, you should edit your own post to clear up some misconceptions you may be spreading. The researchers in your link argued (ineffectively, as the current paradigm of essential/non-essential is still being printed in textbooks more than a decade later) against the concept because they believed it would be better to also include many non-essential aminos in a new category called “functional” amino acids. It should also be made clear that this proposed paradigm exists in the context of optimizing chicken feed, and at no point rebuts the fact that the essential amino acids are themselves ultimately essential
at no point rebuts the fact that the essential amino acids are themselves ultimately essential
I’m taking issue with your claim that no specific amino acids are essential for gorillas. That’s wildly implausible, given that pretty much any animal studied has shown that animals all have essential amino acids, and that mammals generally require the same 9 amino acids as nutritionally essential. Even ruminants, whose gut microbes can synthesize many of the essential amino acids, still have issues if they don’t separately consume enough of those amino acids, because the rumen microbes can’t actually provide enough for their metabolic needs.
Yes, essential amino acids are essential. No, gorillas are not some kind of sole exception in animals to that general principle. They just get enough from their relatively high protein plant diets.
You are simply factually mistaken about the nature of herbivores generally. You are also, intentionally or not, engaging in equivocation between the concepts of what is nutritionally required to eat and what is biologically required to function further down the line. You are also engaged in an ongoing adjustment of your argument, apparently just for the sake of argument, without addressing the serious issues with your argument as it was originally presented.
For these reasons I’m not terribly interested in an ongoing dialogue with you on this topic. It’s simply not a productive use of my time to keep on reading large papers you link to but haven’t read yourself, then correcting the claims you make that the evidence you provide doesn’t support. I also do not feel any need to directly address the false claims you falsely accuse me of making, when my above posts already clearly contradict them. I trust that readers with a genuine interest will be able to navigate these posts without issue, and then delve into the textbooks worth of fully unsimplified research if it strikes their fancy to do so.
The question was: how do gorillas get so muscular on a mostly plant based diet?
The correct answer is: they eat a shitload of protein that is present in the plants they eat, by consuming 20-30% of their calories from protein and eating 25-40kg of food per day.
Your answer included factually incorrect claims about how gorillas can synthesize any amino acid so that the concept of nutritionally essential amino acids don’t apply to them.
I just wanted to let you know that I found your comments very interesting! Also, what would happen if adding human got a fecal transplant from a gorilla? Asking for a friend
Thank you! Most likely the human would not inherit gorilla powers, although it’s certainly worth investigating
For those unaware, emerging research on fecal transplants is crazy! Very worth looking into. It seems like to some extent, characteristics can be transferred from one person to another. Like giving a transplant from a fit person to an untrained overweight person can spontaneously result in weight loss and increased muscle mass, for a period of time. The world is truly an incredible and mysterious place!
Hey,
So the confusion here comes from the application of the term ‘essential’
The reason humans differentiate between essential/not is because it is “essential” for us to ingest those amino acids directly in our diet, because we cannot synthesize them ourselves.
Gorillas do not have a separate “essential” category because they can synthesize everything they need. This is not to suggest they do not physiologically “need” the ones we deem as essential, simply that they can make them.
As an aside, the special thing you’re thinking of is just their gut bacteria. There’s a ton of specific biological information I left out as the comment was already getting too long, and I didn’t really feel like the exact mechanism of action there was critical
No?
Like, read this article:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20095763
If their bodies were able to synthesize all the amino acids they need they couldn’t get an amino acid deficiency syndrome.
Apologies, yes, the non-essential aminos need to be synthesized from protein specifically, which gorillas typically consume in abundance. Edited my post to clarify this issue, thank you
What are you talking about. Pretty much every animal lacks the ability to synthesize certain amino acids. No animal can rearrange the carbon skeletons of 11 out of the 21 amino acids relevant to animal protein (cysteine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, tyrosine, and valine), so the ability to synthesize certain amino acids necessarily relies on the presence of the amino acids that share the same carbon structure. See here, which talks about the essential/non-essential categorization as being outdated and needing to be understood as a sliding scale in which synthesizing even non-essential amino acids carries a cost, and that eating complete proteins in a species-appropriate ratio is still necessary for animals to thrive.
Gorillas consume something like 20-30% of their calories from protein depending on the ratio of low protein fruit to high protein leaves in their diets. Their plant food sources just don’t have all that much in the way of energy, so even the small amounts of protein in any given leaf is made up for the fact that they’re eating up to 40 kg of food per day.
The truth is, gorillas do consume quite a bit of protein. Plant matter, like pretty much any living organism, has protein. Leaves are relatively high in protein compared to other plant foods. Let’s not forget, broccoli has more protein per 100 calories than steaks do.
So no, gorillas are not capable of freely synthesizing the amino acids they need. The truth is that they’re eating a lot of protein from various sources at different amino acid ratios and using those amino acids pretty efficiently.
Why are people so rude when critiquing a bodybuilding gorilla post on a shit posting community?
Anyway, as I have apologized to the other user who took umbrage with my glossing over of a particular biological detail, so now I apologize to you. Yes, you are correct that the essential amino acids are not synthesized out of just anything, but through a specific process which requires other amino acids acquired through the breakdown of protein consumed in the diet. I have edited my post to provide specific clarify to this point.
Have you read my post? Because the back half of your comment simply restates what I was saying about their diet. Thank you for providing supporting links.
Finally, you should edit your own post to clear up some misconceptions you may be spreading. The researchers in your link argued (ineffectively, as the current paradigm of essential/non-essential is still being printed in textbooks more than a decade later) against the concept because they believed it would be better to also include many non-essential aminos in a new category called “functional” amino acids. It should also be made clear that this proposed paradigm exists in the context of optimizing chicken feed, and at no point rebuts the fact that the essential amino acids are themselves ultimately essential
I’m taking issue with your claim that no specific amino acids are essential for gorillas. That’s wildly implausible, given that pretty much any animal studied has shown that animals all have essential amino acids, and that mammals generally require the same 9 amino acids as nutritionally essential. Even ruminants, whose gut microbes can synthesize many of the essential amino acids, still have issues if they don’t separately consume enough of those amino acids, because the rumen microbes can’t actually provide enough for their metabolic needs.
Yes, essential amino acids are essential. No, gorillas are not some kind of sole exception in animals to that general principle. They just get enough from their relatively high protein plant diets.
You are simply factually mistaken about the nature of herbivores generally. You are also, intentionally or not, engaging in equivocation between the concepts of what is nutritionally required to eat and what is biologically required to function further down the line. You are also engaged in an ongoing adjustment of your argument, apparently just for the sake of argument, without addressing the serious issues with your argument as it was originally presented.
For these reasons I’m not terribly interested in an ongoing dialogue with you on this topic. It’s simply not a productive use of my time to keep on reading large papers you link to but haven’t read yourself, then correcting the claims you make that the evidence you provide doesn’t support. I also do not feel any need to directly address the false claims you falsely accuse me of making, when my above posts already clearly contradict them. I trust that readers with a genuine interest will be able to navigate these posts without issue, and then delve into the textbooks worth of fully unsimplified research if it strikes their fancy to do so.
Have a good day
The question was: how do gorillas get so muscular on a mostly plant based diet?
The correct answer is: they eat a shitload of protein that is present in the plants they eat, by consuming 20-30% of their calories from protein and eating 25-40kg of food per day.
Your answer included factually incorrect claims about how gorillas can synthesize any amino acid so that the concept of nutritionally essential amino acids don’t apply to them.
The statement of fact you hold in contention can be confirmed by any doubtful reader by numerous sources that appear in a quick web search
I just wanted to let you know that I found your comments very interesting! Also, what would happen if adding human got a fecal transplant from a gorilla? Asking for a friend
Maybe when they throw their poo at you, they’re simply trying to share their superior gut biome
Thank you! Most likely the human would not inherit gorilla powers, although it’s certainly worth investigating
For those unaware, emerging research on fecal transplants is crazy! Very worth looking into. It seems like to some extent, characteristics can be transferred from one person to another. Like giving a transplant from a fit person to an untrained overweight person can spontaneously result in weight loss and increased muscle mass, for a period of time. The world is truly an incredible and mysterious place!