the most egregious example I can think of is antiwork in reddit. Posters there love to rant against companies, but they also give good advice regarding laws in different states and is a good source to deal with micromanagers and toxic workplaces.
But it’s like they simply don’t think that reddit is making money with every post they write. It’s like they’re working for the enemy they so much despise, a large corporation.
It baffles me that people keep posting there. Is the fediverse alternative really that bad?
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It may be hard to believe for everyone here, since we made the jump. Most people just want to be where everyone else is. They get the most interaction there, from their point of view, so thats where they stay.
Also, we may be biased toward tech here. The average person probably loathes setting up new accounts and figuring out new websites.
Lemmy is largely nerdy, linux loving leftist early tech adopters. In a sense, we sit in an echo chamber until the platform becomes more widely adopted, even though it doesn’t feel that way.
Oh it’s definitely an echo chamber in every sense; there’s no doubt that opinions that tend to be popular on Lemmy are not really representative of true public opinion. The important thing is that we maintain awareness of that and never let ourselves think that what we agree upon, society at large will also agree upon. That awareness helps inoculate against some of the worst effects of an echo chamber.
It’s too late for some of the Linux Lemmys. lol
Early, probably. But the audience here is not THAT primitive. There are casual users that know signing up, and do not even realise they may be on shitjustworks, talking to a lemmee user on a post made by a lemmyworld user.
Tech redditors/channers are not as bright as you think. They barely make the cut even as a general stereotype.
You ever were on a sysadmin post?
Hey! I’m a nerdy, windows hating, early tech adopter who is strongly considering switching his personal PC to Linux but has very limited time in which to do so.
Consider using the Debian version of Linux Mint if you want something user friendly that just works
Ironically I asked pretty much that question soon after joining Lemmy, see here for reference:
I do love Linux. You got me there.
Yeah like I don’t miss Reddit at all except how much more frequently people post on truegaming there. We haven’t quite gotten our community off the ground here yet, but I’m optimistic!
It will all unfold gradually. I continue to use Reddit and also enjoy Lemmy. The main issue with Reddit, particularly the old.reddit version, is the lack of a dark mode and the need to zoom in to poke around on the phone, which becomes a bit cumbersome. Back when Apollo was around, it significantly enhanced the Reddit experience.
Over time, users will come to recognize that the experience on Reddit is less than ideal. Currently, its only advantage is its large user base which is increasing becoming run by bots.
How dare you still use reddit !? /s
But seriously there were a lot more variety of communities on reddit with more people. Some people need the more frequent interaction, some need the niche subs, and some people need the polish/maturity. That’s just how it is
Yeah I use Reddit for some subs that aren’t active here, like Sim Racing. I use Lemmy frequently as my /r/all since there isn’t as much content yet. Sometimes I have to remember what instance I’m in because of ones like hexbear and even .ml to a degree
It is also crucial that leftists be where the masses are in order to make whatever pushes that can be made. There can’t be class awakening if leftist aren’t there to speak-up, otherwise it is all just reactionaries and bootlickers spreading their lies.
Especially with the constant breakages. It’s still very much beta version software (and Kbin is still alpha).
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antiwork on Reddit is a joke at this point. Honestly (and I say this as a pretty staunch leftist), fox news is right about something with AntiWork, that it is for the most part a bunch of lazy people who don’t want to work.
Now that being said, before you downvote me to hell, I strongly do believe in workreform, and the new workreform communities here (and I assume on Reddit but I’m not there anymore) are much better at having a clear message of not being abused and workers rights. Antiwork may have once had that message, but now it’s drowned in “I don’t want to work at all I should be able to have everything I want for free” garbage, and it makes the entire movement look bad.
You have it backwards. Antiwork was always anti-work and was gradually rehabilitated into also including content about work reform.
It’s not a secret. That sub began out of a shared communal sense by folks who literally do not want to work. They are against having jobs. They’re actually pretty clear about that in my experience but it’s been a while.
It’s actually the work reform folks who are the newcomers in that community.
not wanting to work isn’t “being lazy”, you can do all sort of stuff if you didn’t have to waste 8 hours a day for stupid corporate crap (so that others will not need to work)
That falls under the preconception that working is only working if it’s the benefit of capitalism. You can work for a better future. You can work to better yourself. You can work to spread peace and joy to the world around you. The problem is that work is tied to capitalism in social consciousness.
I agree wholeheartedly with you!
lol. Yeah well, I’d love not to work either but I also want food, a home, and to do things I enjoy, so, hear me out, in our society I trade my skills and time for money to pay for those things.
If you want to talk about tangible, actionable items like how much money, or how many hours, or anything that can actually be done, then we can have a conversation. If your standpoint is “We shouldn’t have to work” then to me that’s not an argument. Very few people want to work - but I hate to be the one to tell you this but we aren’t going to tear down 1000s of years of society in a couple of years. There’s a reason Star Trek is set centuries in the future.
The modern concept of work is relatively new, and a product of capitalism. Being anti-work is being against the modern concept of work, not labor in general.
I agree with you. I don’t want to work, but I have to so I do. That doesn’t mean I don’t dream of a time where we won’t have to work anymore [for pointless, shitty, greedy stuff]
Yeah that’s my main realization over the years. We can’t change the system just by being against it. We have to use the crappy system to change it incrementally over time.
thelazy.org agrees!
I’m going to suggest a different take. The antiworkers all work for shitty companies and hate their jobs, and they cannot imagine that anyone else out there is in a different situation. It’s unfathomable to them that some of us might work for pretty ok companies, and do work that, while it’s not as fun as recreating, brings it’s own blend of challenge and fulfillment.
I haven’t been on Reddit in a while and I completely forgot about that community. Sad to hear it’s gone down that way, is it getting botted?
“As a pretty staunch leftist I believe most anti work people are just lazy and the system can be reformed”… Lol, ok.
You’re either not as staunch a leftist as you like to tell yourself, and/or you don’t actually understand what anti-work is about…
I’m also a realist. Yes, it would be great to be post scarcity and live like they do in Star Trek. That’s not going to happen any time soon. We can work that way, bit by bit, but it’s not going to happen. Not this year, not in the next decade, not in the next century.
I fought for gay marriage rights 10 years ago, attended protests, went to town halls and talked with my senators, did the whole thing, and we’re still here talking about it now. States are still trying to roll it back, and if Roe v. Wade told us anything it’s that it’s still not done. I will be lucky if in my life I see that one single item get codified into law.
Upending the world’s entire socio-economic system? Get real, there’s no way that’s happening. Now, as I mentioned in other comments - if you have real, tangible, actionable items to work on - written down goals in order of priority - that can get done.
This is my main problem as a democrat. We get too caught up in high lofty goals and then we all get scatterbrained on what we can actually do. Take the entire BLM movement with George Floyd. There was a moment we could have all collectively said “This is what we want, we want _________”. But people couldn’t decide on one thing. They wanted the entire system changed. If they had chosen one thing, say demilitarization of police - it probably could have happened.
So I say again, as a grizzled, old, very tired democrat. Choose actionable realistic items to focus on. I don’t care what they are. Mandatory health insurance. Retirement for all. Shortened work days. Pick one, focus on that, and you can make it happen. If you keep your message as “The entire system needs to be thrown out and redone” you won’t see anything done.
Well said. It’s easy enough to say you are unhappy with pay, benefits, or working conditions. Complain about the plights of capitalism. Or say you just don’t want to work, period.
There’s a mountain in between here and there. And the path is well defended by the rich and powerful. It’s going to take a lot of work to have less work.
The protest against George Floyd’s murder did have an explicit call to action: defund the police and diversify those funds into social work and alleviating poverty to prevent the need for crime.
“Antiwork” does not leave because that would mean additional work. It is right in the title!
Only if it was satire…
antiwork is filled with people who love to bitch but hate doing anything about it. Staying on reddit because of inertia is exactly the kind of thing that represents them.
Anti-work can stay on Reddit. I’m sick of their bitching.
Yeah, antiwork was a low effort pace to cry about having to work for a living. Workreform was where all the genuine discussion about stagnating and/or shitty workplace practices.
Lemmy is still small and it doesn’t have the crowd sourced discussion or reach that Reddit does.
Sure some people might be after the karma or attention, but it’s bad to just lump everyone together with that assumption. People have different reasons for continuing to use other platforms, and it’s not productive to throw around insults. I assume lots of Reddit users are aware of the issues, but continue to use it for other reasons. Some people may be using Lemmy / fediverse on top of Reddit.
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People may read content relevant to them to get discussion that doesn’t exist on Lemmy yet. That might include social causes, career pages, hobbies, etc.
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People might post on Reddit to reach more people. When it comes to social causes / movements, reaching people is important wherever those people might be. I extend this to other platforms too. As annoying as it might feel, a lot of regular users are primarily on Instagram, TikTok, etc. and it’s worth the effort to get the message to those people. Lots of people learn about social causes that way
For what it’s worth, you can’t get people to move to the Fediverse if they don’t learn about it
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Do you really find it that baffling that people are choosing to provide help and advice in a setting that has millions of active users rather than a setting that has some thousands?
It’s a difference in priorities. People stay on Reddit because that’s where the heat is. I hope that people go here because we understand the inherent dangers of for-profit social media. People can make their own choices.
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Is ‘consistent’ the critical thing here though? Or is introducing ideas to large numbers of people who could actually benefit from them?
Should all leftists just sit in a small room together and only talk among themselves to ensure that they are consistent? Or should they be going to places where there are other people and talking to them to actually spread leftist ideas among them?
They’re in the belly of the beast, some of us wanted out; there are still reachable people there, perhaps.
Because some people don’t infuse their political identity into everything they do
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No.
I’m both here and there. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Reddit, I find, is better for getting more inputs. This place lacks that (hence this question is as askable as it is) but is good for getting more engagement for one’s worth. Money isn’t everything.
If I had to guess it would be the amount of engagement. I love Lemmy but I still use reddit for some communities that just aren’t popular here.
Anyone with half a brain switched from antiwork to workreform after the moderation drama a couple of years ago. Doesn’t surprise me that the remaining members are hard to displace
Asking this is like asking people that don’t like increasing food prices, why do they still go to the grocery store. I think they’re using Reddit because they want to. And if they want to, let them.
And to some, yes- the fediverse is that bad. The far-left socialist leaning communities that block/ban everyone with a reasonable argument against their core belief is an absolute deterrent to lemmy, flies in the face of what Lemmy is all about, and are a BIG reason a lot of people, including myself have chosen to return to Reddit.
Now, you could say that Reddit is just as bad, and you’d be right, but if it’s just as bad but with FAR more content and interaction….
It’s a no brainer.
Also:
Antiwork is a cringe sub full of people that share fake memes and whine about a lot of things while doing nothing about it. It’s a wind-tunnel. Nothing more. You don’t want that shit here.
Sometimes you just have to work within the system that exists and promote change from within.
Specifically for antiwork:
Because they are either generally not very well informed or politically well versed and just know that work sucks,
Or they do not have very much free time to follow meta news about reddit and are unaware of what is going on,
Or they just have not heard of lemmy yet,
Or they have had some kind of technical trouble trying to sign up for or use lemmy in the way they would want to,
Or they are not very not very tech savvy and do not understand the FOSS benefits to a discussion board or why or how thats relevant to capitalism,
Or they are basically hypocrites who prefer an echo chamber that is comfortable to a somewhat less echo chambery option and are really just into the whole scene superficially and do not really actually care for having non contradictory and inconsistent views + personal actions/behaviors.
Lots of them probably fall into different categories and many probably fall into more than one.
antiwork
they do not have very much free time
Doubt
they are not very tech savvy
Pretty sure they are terminally online
they are basically hypocrites who prefer an echo chamber that is comfortable to a somewhat less echo chambery option and are really just into the whole scene superficially and do not really actually care for having non contradictory and inconsistent views + personal actions/behaviors
Bingo!
I would just like to point out that being terminally online has almost nothing at all to do with being technically savvy.
Huge numbers of people who are terminally online are really only adept at using tech at a surface level, and often confuse this /skill/ for things like knowing how back end programming works, understanding what software development entails, etc.
Actually technically competent people go to great, astounding lengths to make decent software very easy to use for the average person. UI/UX, front end devs, back end devs, database management, and I would say testing paradigms for possible bugs, but the industry seems to have largely abandoned giving a shit about that.
Even here on lemmy I often find myself in discussions which turn into arguments which turn into me finally realizing that the person I am talking to has absolutely ludicrous ideas about tech, the tech industry or a specific software.
Such people say and truly believe in obviously nonsensical things, or approach topics from a standpoint that makes it obvious they are really just power users of a particular kind of software, and have developed into basically superficially convincing fanboys or fangirls for it.
They reveal that they only have knowledge from a bit of experimentation and mostly just following a whole bunch of uninformed discussion about some new tech buzz word, and lack understanding of the important basic concepts, or actually relevant dynamics at play, which they likely would /not/ believe if they had ever actually worked in the tech industry, or developed their own software, or contributed usefully to some open source project.
A whole key thing about the tech industry is that it is dominated by reverence for impressive sounding tech buzzwords that promise some new and revolutionary feature, when in reality such things are nearly always minor, iterative improvements on something that came before.
A high number of people are easily bamboozled by such things.
Basically… you are not immune to propaganda?
Then tech world has: You are not immune to marketing.
A great example is the current craze over ‘AI’ generated content.
OpenAI, Stable Diffusion, these kinds of things?
None of them are capable of the vast majority of the kinds of processes that describe intelligence, but people will argue vehemently that they do, because they are not tech savvy, do not know anything about how the underlying tech actually works or what its capable of, or even what the word intelligence means.
It can do cool and neat things, and its branded or marketed as AI, so it is!
But, its not.
it could be from lemmy having a much larger circlejerk problem than reddit, likely due to the lower population, and/or less diverse population (in some cases enforced, lemmy.ml being the biggest case of this)
