Microsoft now activates 'Recall', a Copilot AI feature that's making your private emails & messaging obsolete by saving screenshots of these every few seconds. So what does this Windows update mean, is it really "opt in" and how can you turn it off? Let's take a deep dive!
Very little gaming still requires Windows since the development of Proton. The main compatibility problems that remain seem to involve kernel-invasive anti-cheat systems.
It’s been confirmed before the US government puts backdoors Linux too. I seem to recall a sudo exploit they were found to have intentionally put in years ago.
Yes and that why it was eventually found but it took years. Hell, the Linux community almost missed the XZ backdoor. But your implication was that backdoors don’t exist in Linux and that’s just not true.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:
Should I download the binaries? Should I use snap/flatpak/etc? If I do one vs the other which is more up to date? If I can’t find it in the software store can I trust random online sites?
And that’s just finding applications. Most people don’t have hours of free time to read forums to understand how to fix something that broke (assuming the distro they choose even has a thread relating to the issue).
Windows is a marketing and spying platform. It is targeted by any and every scammer, hacker, used for harvesting your data by programs you install. It is sold as an “easy to use” computer - most ppl don’t even know what an OS is - until 6 months later when the CPU is at 100% and you don’t know why, the hard drive is filling up and you no longer know if your files are local or in “the cloud”. I service older computers for friends and family on a regular basis. Half of them now have Ubuntu installed on old laptops and it’s an eye opener for them. Because most people don’t install new apps. They just want to browse, read emails, open documents, watch movies and listen to music. If you avoid snap and flatpak and install with APT or just download an AppImage you’re going to be ok.
I feel like clearly everyone here is smarter than me or something.
I’ve been running Kubuntu for a while and here is a recent anecdote and you can tell me if I’m just an idiot. I went to install an application so opened up the software store. After installing I found out it was an out of date version of the software. I went to the companies site and they recommended a flatpak install. Kubuntu doesn’t have flatpak enabled by default, so I have to lookup how to install flatpak and could then install the flatpak. However another piece of software recommends using the apt install, and another the Kubuntu store is fine. All of this is okay, but now there are three different ways I have to manage my software.
Its fine for me, but if that’s really the case, you’ll loose the average user at using the command line to install flatpak.
I just looked it up again and it seems like they require you run a command in the console to enable flatpak. I’m not sure if it’s cause they use snaps, given it’s an Ubuntu derivative. I suspect as flatpak continues to win out it’ll all tend that way.
However, the fact this its even a discussion is kinda my point.
Ubuntu… ugg the worst of all distros. I had issues with it since it came out. I never got why it took off. Although I did like their fonts, colors, and Unity. (Even as a KDE person).
So my experience: download Kubuntu. Install. Click update. It of course throws an error. I ignore it and click update again. This time it succeeds but it seemed like forever. Why is that? I can’t stress this enough: Nearly everytime I have tried to work with Ubuntu the very first thing it does is throw an error. Never a good look.
Anyways: Click on software center. Go to settings. Click enable Flatpack. Click on Flatpack add Flathub as a repository. (That step is a little confusing actually, but it is there). Search for Strawberry music player: it offers to add it from Flatpak.
No command line ever used.
The confusion sometimes comes from looking up info, which will lead to the command line. Becuase command line is always the easiest way to share information. Same thing with windows, when I go to fix stuff, they offer powershell. A dozen gui steps and pictures reduced to a single line.
After hearing you found it in a setting I went looking around again, and while I couldn’t find any official Kubuntu documentation, it does seem like Flathub has a setup guide that mentions it as a setting config.
Also, I generally lean towards Ubuntu as most support I find online leans Debian, but curious what distro you use.
In the past: Redhat, then Mostly Debian or Debian derivatives. Mepis was great for the time it was a thing (2003 - 2005). Also Gentoo for awhile.
Nowdays: Arch and Fedora mostly. I put Fedora on a laptop a couple of years ago while trying to see what would work with it and I have been extremely surprised by it. Packages are really up to date, I have gone through a major revision upgrade with no problem at all. Arch is great, but you have to pay attention and deal with change. Fedora is just as up to date but I don’t have to manage the changes.
And Fedora recently added KDE as an official release instead of a “spin” which is all the better. I hope they keep going, I read that they are not a big team and one of them just left.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
Not at all true anymore for Windoze. Windows 7 was the last installment where that was true. Linux distributions are consistent. Once shown how the basics works, e.g., apt install or pacman -S and the general whereabouts of settings or software, it’s super easy to get them going, indefinitely. Even troubleshooting is within reach because searching the settings isn’t a maze within a maze (except for Gnome sometimes). Windoze keeps changing shit constantly, reinstalls uninstalled software, search algorithm is horrible and has Bing search results within the menu enabled by default [the fuck?], updates don’t indicate how long they’ll last, setting a default program often requires configuring it manually for every file extension, oh goddamn fuckers I have to stop typing because Microsoft pisses me off so bad.
Tabula rasa, if I had to teach a 70-year-old who’s never touched a computer before, to do so, I’d pick Linux every time. Consistency and customization is key.
Microsoft makes their users dumb by an illusion of convenience which shatters the instant something goes wrong, like riding a bike with helper wheels that constantly fail. Linux does none of that. It empowers users quite quickly by simply learning how to ride a bike properly. Sure, you fall every so often at the start, but that made mastery that much more satisfying.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
I really doubt that a standard user would have that much problems to do his work with the normal programs (an office suite, a browsere a little else) once Linux with a DE (let be KDE, GNOME or whatever) is installed.
The limitation is not the disto itself, it is the lack of support for some software (like Grasshooper or CAD)
It’s possible that I underestimate the average user, but I did work IT at one point in my life and I still vividly recall needing to point out to someone that their computer wasn’t turning on becuase it wasnt plugged in.
If we go down this road, I am old enough to remember people pinning 5 1/4 floppy disks to the cabinet using magnets and then being surprise it did not work anymore, or people that when asked to do a copy of the disk went to the copy machine.
But that was at the beginning (199x), now I would not consider “average user” someone who is not even able to realize that the pc is not plugged in, tbh.
My example was just to highlight that the “average user” may not be as technically capable as many in this thread propose. But that’s also why I called out I may be underestimating the average user.
I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:
On my distro it’s 1) Open App Store 2) Search for Software 3) hit “install”.
Should I download the binaries? Should I use snap/flatpak/etc?
That’s a matter of personal preference, but once you understand the difference, which is really not that complex, then the choice should be practically automatic.
If I do one vs the other which is more up to date?
You can check the version number.
If I can’t find it in the software store can I trust random online sites?
I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability. While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.
If more people grew up using Linux it might not be as bad, but even still Linux can still break easily and in many ways offers too much freedom for the average user.
I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.
I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.
I wasn’t giving you guidance, I was just pointing out that you are making it sound like some insane struggle to get and install programs on Linux. Usually it’s even more straightforward than in windows, especially if you already know what you are doing.
I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability.
Those are all examples of things that increase usability. Having multiple different ways to install a piece of software is only a problem if you allow choice paralysis to consume you. Right now you know just enough to know those options exist, but not their purpose or function. Literally less than 1/2 hour of googling would answer all of those questions, and with the benefit that you now better understand the useful functionality of your operating system. You only have to spend that 1/2 hour one time, and for the rest of your life you wouldn’t stress out over a flatpak vs a binary, or whatever. And again, for a new user they are probably best served by just opening the app store and hitting install. Easy, breezy, beautiful.
While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.
That’s just not true. Linux has had app stores for decades. Windows didn’t. Until recently, if you needed an app for Windows you had to trust ‘random online sites’ to get software. Now that Windows has it’s own app store, you can use both ways install apps in Windows- no different than in Linux.
I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.
I just remember being a new Windows user and having to learn what a .dll and a .exe was. What the registry was, what installer ‘wizards’ were and how to properly use them, how to find the place in the control panel where you uninstall programs, how to update my system, what ‘fragmentation’ meant how how to solve it, how to not get viruses and how to remove them if you did, how the file system was set up and how to navigate it- There was a lot of stuff to learn, and you either learned it or you weren’t able to properly use your system. Same when I briefly switched to OS X.
It’s no different in Linux. People just don’t want to take the time to learn how things are done in Linux. The reality is it’s really not that hard to get up and running in Linux at all. And while you can always go deeper and learn more- its typically not necessary nowadays. I put Linux on my moms old computer when she was in her 70’s. She was not a techie person at all (extreme understatement). It took about 5 minutes max to get her up to speed. It was never an issue.
Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user
It’s simply a matter of readjusting your mindset. If you are about to do a simple and straightforward task that you already know how to do, chances are in Linux there are 10 other ways to accomplish the same thing- but you are in no way forced to know what they are or how to do them. If you are curious and want to know- that’s great. Take a little bit of time and learn them. If not- don’t.
Cause there is literally nothing stopping the average user from trying, and yet they typically choose windows or macs.
But also, let’s be honest, most people just use a tablet or their phone now anyways. If you believe these numbers, people are choosing even more locked down OSs like android and IOS. Trying to get them to use linux just isn’t likely.
I’m not anti Linux, I use it all the time. But trying to convince the average user to change their OS is an uphill battle.
Average user here. I don’t have time to take up PCs as a hobby. When I need a computer, I need it to just do what I want so I can be done with it.
PC hobbyists always discount the amount of time and effort it takes to be a PC hobbyist. Like a recipe writer who completely ignores prep time and says a complicated recipe will only take 45 minutes.
I recognize it may be a pretty niche issue, but i still haven’t found a Linux app that i can build Monte Carlo simulation models with, though I think some of the developers of these types of apps have made MacOS ports. The ones that I’ve historically used are Excel add-ons, but i haven’t found anything similar yet for Libre Office, or stand alone app.
I would think you would want to do that in python anyways, regardless of the OS. I suppose it might be relative to what you want to do, there are several monte carlo applications for linux but they are focused on certain fields. Whats yours?
Risk Management. I have some very limited experience with using R, but not really any Python experience. There was a good set of tools (Excel add-ons) from ProbabilityManagement.org that gave a lot of flexibility in the models that you could build (e.g. not restricting a user to building financial risk models or schedule risk models like a lot of other risk management apps). I’m not really trying to complain about not being able to find this on Linux, and run an air-gapped Windows machine to hang on to this capability.
I also run silly things like modeling expected dollars needed to complete a Funko collection.
MacOS doesn’t run on my hardware, but yeah editing software and CAD software are the reasons I’m on Windows still.
Technically Davinci Resolve does run on Linux, but it’s not always stable and lacks certain codec support.
I haven’t found a good replacement for lightroom yet, darktable is too complex for me, and rawtherapee doesn’t really manage my library well but is an OK RAW editor.
yup. Digital cinema / mastering here and most of our kit is still windows because linux just doesn’t support the software. The previous suggestion of “JuSt uSe a MaC” can get in the bin for multiple reasons.
I’m curious on what features does Windows have other other OSes. Just gaming? Music and video editing can be on MacOS. Linux can do everything else.
Very little gaming still requires Windows since the development of Proton. The main compatibility problems that remain seem to involve kernel-invasive anti-cheat systems.
It’s been confirmed before the US government puts backdoors Linux too. I seem to recall a sudo exploit they were found to have intentionally put in years ago.
With Linux, you can see all the code. So, if you know about government backdoors in Linux, you should point them out so that people can fix them.
Yes and that why it was eventually found but it took years. Hell, the Linux community almost missed the XZ backdoor. But your implication was that backdoors don’t exist in Linux and that’s just not true.
Usability.
Windows and Mac are both easier to use for the standard user.
I’m a technical person and even I struggle with what/how the hell I’m supposed to even install applications on Linux:
And that’s just finding applications. Most people don’t have hours of free time to read forums to understand how to fix something that broke (assuming the distro they choose even has a thread relating to the issue).
Windows is a marketing and spying platform. It is targeted by any and every scammer, hacker, used for harvesting your data by programs you install. It is sold as an “easy to use” computer - most ppl don’t even know what an OS is - until 6 months later when the CPU is at 100% and you don’t know why, the hard drive is filling up and you no longer know if your files are local or in “the cloud”. I service older computers for friends and family on a regular basis. Half of them now have Ubuntu installed on old laptops and it’s an eye opener for them. Because most people don’t install new apps. They just want to browse, read emails, open documents, watch movies and listen to music. If you avoid snap and flatpak and install with APT or just download an AppImage you’re going to be ok.
Wait, this seems completely backwards.
Windows: Here is some forum post to some rando’s software. SomeShit.exe. Should I install it?
As opposed to Linux: I look in the category of the software I am interested in, click install.
And as far as breaking… I use linux because it doesn’t break. I don’t have time for windows bullshit.
I feel like clearly everyone here is smarter than me or something.
I’ve been running Kubuntu for a while and here is a recent anecdote and you can tell me if I’m just an idiot. I went to install an application so opened up the software store. After installing I found out it was an out of date version of the software. I went to the companies site and they recommended a flatpak install. Kubuntu doesn’t have flatpak enabled by default, so I have to lookup how to install flatpak and could then install the flatpak. However another piece of software recommends using the apt install, and another the Kubuntu store is fine. All of this is okay, but now there are three different ways I have to manage my software.
Its fine for me, but if that’s really the case, you’ll loose the average user at using the command line to install flatpak.
Kubuntu require you to use a command line to get flatpaks? Usually it is just a toggle in a package manager. I think Fedora is on by default.
I just looked it up again and it seems like they require you run a command in the console to enable flatpak. I’m not sure if it’s cause they use snaps, given it’s an Ubuntu derivative. I suspect as flatpak continues to win out it’ll all tend that way.
However, the fact this its even a discussion is kinda my point.
So I wanted to see for myself.
Ubuntu… ugg the worst of all distros. I had issues with it since it came out. I never got why it took off. Although I did like their fonts, colors, and Unity. (Even as a KDE person).
So my experience: download Kubuntu. Install. Click update. It of course throws an error. I ignore it and click update again. This time it succeeds but it seemed like forever. Why is that? I can’t stress this enough: Nearly everytime I have tried to work with Ubuntu the very first thing it does is throw an error. Never a good look.
Anyways: Click on software center. Go to settings. Click enable Flatpack. Click on Flatpack add Flathub as a repository. (That step is a little confusing actually, but it is there). Search for Strawberry music player: it offers to add it from Flatpak.
No command line ever used.
The confusion sometimes comes from looking up info, which will lead to the command line. Becuase command line is always the easiest way to share information. Same thing with windows, when I go to fix stuff, they offer powershell. A dozen gui steps and pictures reduced to a single line.
Wow! I appreciate your thoroughness.
After hearing you found it in a setting I went looking around again, and while I couldn’t find any official Kubuntu documentation, it does seem like Flathub has a setup guide that mentions it as a setting config.
Also, I generally lean towards Ubuntu as most support I find online leans Debian, but curious what distro you use.
In the past: Redhat, then Mostly Debian or Debian derivatives. Mepis was great for the time it was a thing (2003 - 2005). Also Gentoo for awhile.
Nowdays: Arch and Fedora mostly. I put Fedora on a laptop a couple of years ago while trying to see what would work with it and I have been extremely surprised by it. Packages are really up to date, I have gone through a major revision upgrade with no problem at all. Arch is great, but you have to pay attention and deal with change. Fedora is just as up to date but I don’t have to manage the changes.
And Fedora recently added KDE as an official release instead of a “spin” which is all the better. I hope they keep going, I read that they are not a big team and one of them just left.
Not at all true anymore for Windoze. Windows 7 was the last installment where that was true. Linux distributions are consistent. Once shown how the basics works, e.g.,
apt installorpacman -Sand the general whereabouts of settings or software, it’s super easy to get them going, indefinitely. Even troubleshooting is within reach because searching the settings isn’t a maze within a maze (except for Gnome sometimes). Windoze keeps changing shit constantly, reinstalls uninstalled software, search algorithm is horrible and has Bing search results within the menu enabled by default [the fuck?], updates don’t indicate how long they’ll last, setting a default program often requires configuring it manually for every file extension, oh goddamn fuckers I have to stop typing because Microsoft pisses me off so bad.Tabula rasa, if I had to teach a 70-year-old who’s never touched a computer before, to do so, I’d pick Linux every time. Consistency and customization is key. Microsoft makes their users dumb by an illusion of convenience which shatters the instant something goes wrong, like riding a bike with helper wheels that constantly fail. Linux does none of that. It empowers users quite quickly by simply learning how to ride a bike properly. Sure, you fall every so often at the start, but that made mastery that much more satisfying.
apt install as the basics? It’s not even needed. Try LinuxMint, it’s way more simple and usable than Windows, no shell commands necessary
I really doubt that a standard user would have that much problems to do his work with the normal programs (an office suite, a browsere a little else) once Linux with a DE (let be KDE, GNOME or whatever) is installed.
The limitation is not the disto itself, it is the lack of support for some software (like Grasshooper or CAD)
It’s possible that I underestimate the average user, but I did work IT at one point in my life and I still vividly recall needing to point out to someone that their computer wasn’t turning on becuase it wasnt plugged in.
If we go down this road, I am old enough to remember people pinning 5 1/4 floppy disks to the cabinet using magnets and then being surprise it did not work anymore, or people that when asked to do a copy of the disk went to the copy machine.
But that was at the beginning (199x), now I would not consider “average user” someone who is not even able to realize that the pc is not plugged in, tbh.
My example was just to highlight that the “average user” may not be as technically capable as many in this thread propose. But that’s also why I called out I may be underestimating the average user.
On my distro it’s 1) Open App Store 2) Search for Software 3) hit “install”.
That’s a matter of personal preference, but once you understand the difference, which is really not that complex, then the choice should be practically automatic.
You can check the version number.
You have the same issue in Windows.
I wasn’t asking for guidance, I’m just pointing out that these are all things that reduce usability. While you’re right that some of these issues also exist on the windows side, it’s not as prolific.
If more people grew up using Linux it might not be as bad, but even still Linux can still break easily and in many ways offers too much freedom for the average user.
I think that a lot of technical people forget that the average user is quick to give up and has a knack for breaking things. Many of the restrictive elements in Mac and Windows are to protect the average user, usually to the bane of the super user.
I wasn’t giving you guidance, I was just pointing out that you are making it sound like some insane struggle to get and install programs on Linux. Usually it’s even more straightforward than in windows, especially if you already know what you are doing.
Those are all examples of things that increase usability. Having multiple different ways to install a piece of software is only a problem if you allow choice paralysis to consume you. Right now you know just enough to know those options exist, but not their purpose or function. Literally less than 1/2 hour of googling would answer all of those questions, and with the benefit that you now better understand the useful functionality of your operating system. You only have to spend that 1/2 hour one time, and for the rest of your life you wouldn’t stress out over a flatpak vs a binary, or whatever. And again, for a new user they are probably best served by just opening the app store and hitting install. Easy, breezy, beautiful.
That’s just not true. Linux has had app stores for decades. Windows didn’t. Until recently, if you needed an app for Windows you had to trust ‘random online sites’ to get software. Now that Windows has it’s own app store, you can use both ways install apps in Windows- no different than in Linux.
I just remember being a new Windows user and having to learn what a .dll and a .exe was. What the registry was, what installer ‘wizards’ were and how to properly use them, how to find the place in the control panel where you uninstall programs, how to update my system, what ‘fragmentation’ meant how how to solve it, how to not get viruses and how to remove them if you did, how the file system was set up and how to navigate it- There was a lot of stuff to learn, and you either learned it or you weren’t able to properly use your system. Same when I briefly switched to OS X.
It’s no different in Linux. People just don’t want to take the time to learn how things are done in Linux. The reality is it’s really not that hard to get up and running in Linux at all. And while you can always go deeper and learn more- its typically not necessary nowadays. I put Linux on my moms old computer when she was in her 70’s. She was not a techie person at all (extreme understatement). It took about 5 minutes max to get her up to speed. It was never an issue.
It’s simply a matter of readjusting your mindset. If you are about to do a simple and straightforward task that you already know how to do, chances are in Linux there are 10 other ways to accomplish the same thing- but you are in no way forced to know what they are or how to do them. If you are curious and want to know- that’s great. Take a little bit of time and learn them. If not- don’t.
Choice is good.
Oh, no, too much freedom. Can’t have that.
Instead of saying “The average user can’t do this”, why not let the average user try?
Cause there is literally nothing stopping the average user from trying, and yet they typically choose windows or macs.
But also, let’s be honest, most people just use a tablet or their phone now anyways. If you believe these numbers, people are choosing even more locked down OSs like android and IOS. Trying to get them to use linux just isn’t likely.
I’m not anti Linux, I use it all the time. But trying to convince the average user to change their OS is an uphill battle.
Average user here. I don’t have time to take up PCs as a hobby. When I need a computer, I need it to just do what I want so I can be done with it.
PC hobbyists always discount the amount of time and effort it takes to be a PC hobbyist. Like a recipe writer who completely ignores prep time and says a complicated recipe will only take 45 minutes.
Adoption.
I recognize it may be a pretty niche issue, but i still haven’t found a Linux app that i can build Monte Carlo simulation models with, though I think some of the developers of these types of apps have made MacOS ports. The ones that I’ve historically used are Excel add-ons, but i haven’t found anything similar yet for Libre Office, or stand alone app.
I would think you would want to do that in python anyways, regardless of the OS. I suppose it might be relative to what you want to do, there are several monte carlo applications for linux but they are focused on certain fields. Whats yours?
Risk Management. I have some very limited experience with using R, but not really any Python experience. There was a good set of tools (Excel add-ons) from ProbabilityManagement.org that gave a lot of flexibility in the models that you could build (e.g. not restricting a user to building financial risk models or schedule risk models like a lot of other risk management apps). I’m not really trying to complain about not being able to find this on Linux, and run an air-gapped Windows machine to hang on to this capability.
I also run silly things like modeling expected dollars needed to complete a Funko collection.
MacOS doesn’t run on my hardware, but yeah editing software and CAD software are the reasons I’m on Windows still.
Technically Davinci Resolve does run on Linux, but it’s not always stable and lacks certain codec support.
I haven’t found a good replacement for lightroom yet, darktable is too complex for me, and rawtherapee doesn’t really manage my library well but is an OK RAW editor.
yup. Digital cinema / mastering here and most of our kit is still windows because linux just doesn’t support the software. The previous suggestion of “JuSt uSe a MaC” can get in the bin for multiple reasons.