I just realized that El Paso is actually in MST. They must have hated it so bad not to stick with the rest of Texas. But whoever lives in the farthest point west but still in CST is being screwed. Same with EST.

Funny the section of Texas that is in MST is three tiny blocks, basically the same width as all of Michigan. Texas is big lol.

Michigan should probably move to CST

When I think of Colorado I think of it being way north. You could live in Colorado and be as north as someone living in Raleigh NC almost. That’s wild.

Yeah Colorado seems to appear to be all up to preference on the choices. It’s at the start of a time zone. People on the east lean towards permanent MDT, People on the west lean towards permanent MST.

Im guessing that you live towards the west side. Yet if most people around you seem to want it, then maybe you live on east side lol

Detroit is an interesting one.

If Detroit kept DST permanent, the sun would basically set after 6pm every day.

However. Like you said, no one wants to wait until the 9am for the sun to rise.

Abolishing DST could be beneficial for Detroit. Not as many days where the sun sets after 6. But more days where it rises before 7.

The current system is bad for Detroit. It should either abolish it or keep it permanent.

Detroit night owls would want to keep it, early birds would want to abolish it.

Detroit is like El Paso TX. Where the current system is clearly bad.

Maine is the opposite. The current system is “best” and the birds and owls fight.

I live in Charlotte NC. I’ve always been for DST. Permanent DST means basically 365 days where the sun sets after 6pm. While getting basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7am. I’m not an early riser, so as long as it’s up by 8/9am most of the time it’s fine with me.

Arizona has it right. What I want in Charlotte shouldn’t matter to what you want in Detroit.

You hate DST, I like it. You should be able to get rid of it, I should be able to keep it.

Different places are affected by it much more or less. People are owls or birds. You can’t make everybody happy with one option.

Maine is so far away from everything else it could be in it’s own time zone. That’s why it is a strange case.

Never really thought about Detroit being almost directly north of Charlotte.

Red lines are current time zones. Red circle is El Paso. Blue lines are if you equally cut US into 4 time zones.

Detroit is to the right of the red line. It has 3 boxes to reach the beginning of the time zone which is just to the right of Maine. (Sorry didn’t draw it)

El Paso being in the circle makes it 3 boxes to reach the beginning of time zone just like Detroit and why it is in the similar situation with DST.

The right two time zones are large time zones. The left two are only 2 boxes wide.

Maine should be in a separate time zone than Detroit

Detroit should probably move to CST. Then, argue about daylight savings time in the summer to be EST (Not EDT)

Sounds like something you’d like, maybe?

Permanent daylight time gives us all of the downsides and exactly one benefit. I’m sorry you live that far North/South, but that’s just how the seasons and tilt of the earth work. We shouldn’t be doing split time at all, and we shouldn’t endeavor to be an hour off the rest of the world just so commuters can drive home with the sun in their eyes.

I said “Its not just north and south,” implying that time zones pay a large part in how one experiences the sun.

Daylight savings time’s intention is not to “get more or save sunlight”. The intention is to shift the time to better use the sunlight.

Depending on where you live, you’re going to be either for or against DST more or less.

Example, if you live in El Paso TX, then staying on DST is amazing. They get 365 days where the sunsets after 6 pm while having basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7 am . However, if you live in Auburn AL, then you probably hate permanent DST because the sun would hardly ever rise before 7 am. Auburn benefits from the current system or they get less affected by getting rid of DST.

The length of your day is not defined by your time zone. It is defined by your latitude, how far north of the equator you are. X degrees north gets Y hours of sunlight at N time of year.

Yes that is correct.

Look at Sioux Falls and Rapid City. Their daylight length is less

Sioux Falls

7:08am sunrise to 5:12pm sunset CST

Rapid City

6:36am sunrise to 4:37pm sunset MST (7:36am CST to 5:37pm CST)

Sioux Falls

10 hr 4 mins of sunlight

Rapid City

10 hr 1 mins of sunlight

Because of the latitude difference, they have a ~3 minute difference in the amount of sun tomorrow. Because latitude affects how fast the sun sets and rises, the total sunlight will be slightly different.

Let’s say you wake up at 6am.

Rapid City

Light

Sioux Falls

Dark

Now if you got off work at 5pm

Rapid City

Dark

Sioux Falls

Light

Now, would you prefer to live in Rapid City or Sioux Falls? It depends on your sleep and work schedule, probably.

What if we moved Rapid City to CST? (Basically DST, +1 hour)

Wake up 6

Dark

Get off work at 5

Light

Some people in Rapid City might enjoy that.

So instead of creating a fucking nightmare for commerce and programming, we should be working the hours that make sense.

Being on the western edge of a time zone means your work hours should be different than on the Eastern edge

These two sentences conflict so hard

Let’s look at Alabama and Georgia since the time zone splits them.

So what you’re saying is someone that lives in Alabama near the Georgia line should have a different time to go to work than some living in Alabama on the other side of the state?

Is your solution just having more time zones? Because that is more complicated and has nothing to do with daylight savings time.

The problem isn’t the time zone. It’s capitalism demanding you work the entire day away even though productivity has increased massively and we work far more than our ancestors from supposedly dreary times.

This is random.

You just want people to pick whenever they feel like working? In Sioux Falls the sun sets at 5:12pm CST tomorrow. I want 4 hours of full sunlight after work. So I should be able to work from 5:12 am to 1:12pm?

I think your point was “8 hour work day is bullshit”. And I’m not against that but that’s a whole other discussion.

Even if we all didn’t work, we would still fight over keeping our current system, staying on DST, or staying on standard time. Some will want more light in morning. Some would want it in the evening.

That’s why shifting the time zone is, at most, going to get you the sun in your eyes as you drive home.

This only happens if you have to drive west during that exact time.

What’s funny is the idea of DST tries to correct stuff like this

Say everyone from Westburg has to commute to Eastville to work (or to play because they don’t have to work and be enslaved to capitalism). Everyone is going to hate driving home afterwards if they all have to do it at the exact time the sun will shine directly into their eyes.

One solution is work begins and ends earlier or later. (Or you park your jetski early or later.)

Or you could shift the time + or - 1 hour like DST does.

Also, once again, it’s not about magically getting more sunlight. It’s about shifting the sunlight you get to better suit your desires.

And it wastes energy as people try to heat the coldest part of the day instead of staying under their blankets

Wow.

Anyways, I’m sorry you are unfortunate enough to get out of work at the time the sunset would be a problem and have to drive straight towards it.

Some people would prefer to double down on DST. Instead of falling back in the fall, you spring forward again. Then in the spring you fall back. Make DST standard. Maybe this is something you’d be interested in if you hated sun in the morning and wanted at least an hour of it after work.

There is nothing “standard” for the sun to set in Sioux Falls at 5:12pm CST. It could easily set at 6:12pm if the whole system wasn’t based off of Greenwich England. You could have had SFMT (Sioux Falls Mean Time) and then base all other time zones off of it. Sun would set at 6:12pm SFST. You could do daylight savings and turn it into the sun setting at 7:12pm SFDST. You could do daylight wasting time and make the sun set at 5:12pm SFDWT.

It’s all arbitrary

They have to start and stop somewhere is the problem and you don’t want half a city or town using two different times. Imagine if the hardware store on one side of town closed at 8 EST and the mall on the other closed at 8 CST. Theoretically, they could be right next to each other even. For example, if you lived by the hardware store but worked at the mall, things would be a mess.

So really not awful cut offs but more weird cut offs. Because making standard cut offs doesn’t make it any better. Kind of like, best they can be with current system.

I find time zones and everything so interesting and that people don’t understand it at all. Some people will say “I hate daylight savings time” when they like the extra hour of light in the evening but hate changing their clocks. They like DST but hate changing the clocks and probably want to stay on DST always.

There’s no best way to do it. It’s all preference.

I compared Sioux Falls SD to Rapid City SD in another comment on this thread. If Rapid City was CST like Sioux Falls the sun would set 25 minutes later in Rapid City, but since it is MST the sun sets 35 minutes before.

You also got to think some start work at 8 some start at 9. If you start at 9, you’re more likely in favor of DST.

Yeah a lot of misinformation around DST. People don’t like being wrong and I guess the image didn’t fit what they wanted to be right. Oh well lol

Like I said, “It’s not just north or south.”

Time zones change the sunset time east and west as well.

Abolishing time zones has nothing to do with “fixing” daylight savings.

Even if we all switched to UTC and got rid of time zones . Everyone would have to decide when to go to bed, when to wake up, and when to work to fit it around the sun.

5:13pm CST is 11:13pm UTC

If Sioux Falls wanted to stay “standard time” for the sun. They would have to start work at 3pm UTC and get off work at 11pm UTC. (9am to 5pm)

Yet they could decide that they wanted to get “daylight savings time” for the sun, they would start work at 2pm UTC and get off at 10pm UTC. They would get one extra hour of sun after work instead of before.

Thank you. You did a great job explaining it.

The gradients change based on time zones. You’ll see how they line up.

Walking over a time zone line changes time one hour, but the sunset time doesn’t magically change an hour.

Like say you are standing between Georgia and Alabama. If you walk into Georgia the sun will set at around 5:30pm EST. If you walk into Alabama the sun will set at around 4:30pm CST.

The sun is setting one hour earlier in Alabama but you are basically watching the exact same sunset.

As you go further west into Alabama the time zone change “makes more sense” because the time zone being exactly between Alabama and Georgia doesn’t make sense other than them being separate states.

Sioux Falls SD is 43.5460°N

Rapid City SD is 44.0805°N

Sioux Falls Sunset is at 5:13pm CST

Rapid City Sunset is at 4:38pm MST

If both cities were in CST, Rapid City sun would set at 5:38pm CST

Due to the latitude difference, the sunsets should be 25 minutes apart

However, they are 35 minutes apart due to the time zone difference

If you said “Sioux Falls is farther south than Rapid City” and tried to base sunset time on just that, you’d be wrong.

It’s not just north or south

It’s almost 22 UTC

Which is 5pm EST

8am EST is when most work starts

That’s 15 hours from now

So work would start at 13 UTC

Yes, these are arbitrary numbers. Doesn’t matter if we go to work at 8am EST or 13 UTC.

However, this has nothing to do with daylight savings time or with what daylight savings time is trying to accomplish.

This is a good picture showing how different places experience different sunrise/sunset times.

Most just think that it has to do with being north or south but it also has to do with left or right depending on the location in the certain time zone.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest-lasting_light_bulbs#:~:text=The world’s longest-lasting light,off a handful of times.

Imagine it like a car steering wheel.

You’d say turning the wheel to the right turns the car right.

Think of it like this. Like your hand is holding on the top of the steering wheel.

We have had weather modification technology for 20+ years.

First known use in war was in 1967, called Operation Popeye.

Now could the government create a category 5 hurricane? Very farfetched.

Crazy thing is he has to give a 70.23% discount for people to even think about buying a pillow

50 dollars for the world’s best pillow is a steal

Something you use every night that can actually help with sleep and health. You shouldn’t be skimping on your pillow.

deleted by creator

You can donate blood in 20 minutes. It takes an hour plus to donate plasma

Am I going to sit in a chair for an hour plus without any compensation? Maybe once or twice here and there. But you can donate plasma at least twice a week.

It requires two donations for a single unit. If you donate once and don’t donate the second, then your first donation is unusable. You have to get them to donate twice.

When I was donating plasma, it paid about $75 for each donation. 50 first, 100 for second. The money is pretty good. $300 a month is a lot for a lot of people.

If you didn’t compensate people for plasma donations, a lot wouldn’t do it. They currently need more people to donate.

Plasma “donation” is a good thing.

We administer retirement, disability, survivor, and family benefits, and enroll individuals in Medicare.

Social Security provides retirement income for almost every American worker.

Ssa.gov

An investment fund is a supply of capital belonging to numerous investors, used to collectively purchase securities, while each investor retains ownership and control of their own shares.

Investopedia.com

The only thing not making it an investment fund is that the government forcefully takes the money and you don’t own the money after it is taken.

The average person gets the majority of their retirement income from SS.

Ask the average person what SS is. They will say that it is a retirement fund. What is a retirement fund? An investment fund.

Social insurance, as conceived by President Roosevelt, would address the permanent problem of economic security for the elderly by creating a work-related, contributory system in which workers would provide for their own future economic security through taxes paid while employed.

Ssa.gov

The average person makes 65k

Social security is 12.4%

Medicare is 2.9%

Social Security is 8.19k

Medicare is 1.885k

Average person pays 10k a year to SS and Medicare.

Retirement age is 67

Start work at 18, 49 years of work.

S&P500 has returned an average of 10.64% apr for the last 100 years. 16.5% last 5 years.

30-year morgage is ~7.5%

Let’s just assume the person could put extra money towards their mortgage, gaining 7.5% apr.

10k/12= 833.33 per month

833.33 a month at 7.5% apr for 30 years is 1.02M

833.33 a month at 10% apr for 49 years is 10.41M

Government takes 1-10M from the average American retirement account to give them SS and Medicare.

Let’s say you live until 80. Average life expectancy is ~77.5. Means you have 13 years in retirement.

Average SS payment is 1,864.52 a month. 22,374.24 a year.

13 years of 22,374.24 is 290,865.12.

Average person is losing 750k-9.75M for retirement.

Medicare is a whole other beast but unless you’re going to pay 750k+ on medical expenses in retirement, it’s not going to benefit you.

Even with Medicare you have to pay premiums, deductibles, copayments, and coinsurance. So it’s not like it’s all covered for “free”.

SS is a government ran ponzi scheme. Anyone else doing it would be a crooked investor.

I get that minimum wage is $7.25 and that’s 15k a year. They are paying 2k a year for SS. They will most likely benefit from the system.

But the average American shouldn’t be footing so much of the bill and not seeing any benefits.

It’s crazy

Criminal Minds

What you’re saying

Say my mortgage is 1k a month.

I can’t afford 1k, so I let you move in and pay me “rent”

You pay me 1k each month.

After a year, I kick you out and move back in.

Where’d your 12k go?

Bank going to give 12k in cash to you and increase my mortgage by 12k?