• Farmington Hills officials are fuming over a glut of unsold Cybertrucks being stored in the city.
  • Tesla has been parking the EVs at a shopping center earmarked for major redevelopment.
  • Officials say the electric vehicles violate zoning codes and are warning the property owner.
  • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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    3 days ago

    Batteries can be recycled, reused or repurposed. It’s nowhere near as damaging as drilling for/refining/shipping/burning oil and we decided we are perfectly okay with that.

    • utopiah@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Batteries can be recycled, reused or repurposed. It’s nowhere near as damaging as drilling for/refining/shipping/burning oil

      Why is the alternative to an EV SUV a combustion engine SUV? Why isn’t cycling and public transport?

      I’m not saving ICEs are good and EV are bad but that maybe… both aren’t great anyway, especially when actual alternatives that make people healthier do exist.

      • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Biking doesn’t always work well in the us because shit is spread out further.

        • utopiah@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Anything else but driving doesn’t work well in the US because the “way of life” is indeed car centric. It will never change without infrastructure, including but not limited to bike lanes. Large distances are possible with (electric) bike but this at least needs to be safe.

          So… yes I’m not advocating for somebody leaving the middle of absolute nowhere to give up on their cars. This is not even about cities (as the article mentions a parking lot I assume it’s next or even inside a city).

          No, my point instead is to question the false dichotomy.

          • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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            2 days ago

            I agree we shouldn’t have set things up as we did but it’s done and there is no way I’m biking what would be a 40 minute drive to microcenter.

            • utopiah@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              I did spend last week biking 45min somewhere and back (so 1h30) for 4 days in a row. It’s not for everyone … but not only it’s feasible but (and I know it will sound crazy to some) I actually did enjoy it. On the last day I even did the last trip with a new friend, chatting the entire ride.

              Again, I’m not arguing that anybody should do that, or have fun doing, only that’s it not impossible.

    • GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      The lithium mining process is laborious, dangerous, and releases radioactive elements into groundwater and into the air as mine tailings. Not to mention, most of Earth’s lithium reserves are in Chile, Bolivia, and Rwanda. With Western investors backing corrupt national governments, this means that exploitative labor (read: slavery) is the primary means of extraction.

      It is, in comparison to other extraction methods, literally just as bad.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Mexico has a giant deposit but they insist on silly things like environmental regulations.

      • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Actually lithium isn’t the long term plan, it’s just the plan for today. Sodium is the long term. But huge lithium deposits exists in the US and China too.

    • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Agreed. The person you’re responding to is using the same logic as “wind turbines kill birds”, “EVs run on FF electricity”, etc. Anyone trying to convince you to let perfection get in the way of progress is almost certainly being disingenuous, or at best has been talked into it by someone who was.

      • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Lithium is pretty stable. Those dumbtrucks will rot there for some time, then got reposessed and eventually moved to a recycling plant, and almost all of the lithium will eventually be used for something useful.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          2 days ago

          They probably won’t even actually recycle the batteries. The packs and batteries are still gonna be good. They’ll just pull the whole battery packs out and use them in other vehicles or stationary storage.

          • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Probably. Unless it’s something very proprietary that is specifically incompatible with everything, I wouldn’t put that past the current Tesla people.

            • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              Jerryrigeverything has already demonstrated Tesla packs can be used for other vehicles. He made an electric military humvee.

              • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                Afaik, both him, Superfast Matt, and others were using packs from the comparatively sane Teslas, ones that were designed by engineers, not by a child with dementia. I am afraid to assume what the poorly rendered rustbucket is made of.

    • RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Lithium mining is horrible for the environment too. I don’t think that’s a bit improvement over gas\oil

          • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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            2 days ago

            Dude hydrogen is a bait and switch. We’ve had hydrogen engine tech forever. As for the source, you CAN get it from water after putting in more energy into it than you get out of it, or you can just refine it from oil. Guess what the plan has always been?

            Hydrogen is just a way to greenwash big oil.

            • RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              there are modern ways of doing it they’re pretty efficient from what I’ve been reading using natural gas and water or electrolysis but I’m no scientist so I’m not going to try to explain it here I think maybe you should look into some more modern methods than what you’re talking about.

              • muusemuuse@lemm.ee
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                2 days ago

                Natural gas is not green. Not even close. It’s just more convenient. Electrolysis cannot magically be made more efficient here either. It takes a certain amount of energy to break those chemical bonds and you can’t magically break those bonds using less energy. The amount of energy you get from burning that hydrogen is less than what you put in to break those bonds via electrolysis.

                I actually do know what I’m talking about here.

    • innermachine@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I thought it was widely accepted that lithium mining is far more harmful to the environment than drilling for oil, and that the hope was that not burning oil/gas we offset the mining (to the point if u drive ur electric car x miles it’s cleaner overall than if u drive an ICE vehicle). Do you have information that states otherwise?

            • innermachine@lemmy.world
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              5 hours ago

              Alright here’s more effort than you could be bothered with- drilling oil out of the ground involved a drill that goes deep into the ground. Their not all that big. Have you seen a lithium mine before? Massive hole in the earth miles wide and quite deep, a hole in the earth that will be visible for centuries. A big open wound on the planet that cannot heal itself. I know this is a tough comparison because oil is more of a consumable, and lithium for batteries sure it’s technically a consumable but with a much longer life than say a 50 gal drum of oil. I’m not taking into account refining for either material, or the waste involved with disposing of batteries or emissions of cars burning gas. It’s an apples to oranges comparison and hard to say which is worse at the end of the day. What is a fact, however, is that producing an electric car is more harmful to the environment than producing an ice car. And keeping an old ice car alive is better for the environment than producing any new car. Both lithium mining and oil drilling quite frankly awful for the environment. So do you have the gusto to help me understand and produce a productive conversation or are u happy to just troll? It is an incredibly complex issue to account for the exact environmental impact of either, but an issue that intrigues me and I think an important conversation to have.

              • frezik@midwest.social
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                4 hours ago

                Your post is still just speculation based on personal understanding. I can claim every word of it is wrong and be just as credible.

                Are you going to post an actual study comparing the manufacturing costs? You made the claim first, so you get to do the work first.

      • Hacksaw@lemmy.ca
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        2 days ago

        I’ve got a nonsense idea with no sources do you have sources to contradict it?

        Start with sources that back-up the nonsense you just made up. Because there is just no possible way that extracting 1 EV’s worth of lithium is equivalent pollution to the expected 200-400 thousand miles of ICE driving it offsets.

      • PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Oil spills are far worse for the environment than mining could be. Also, electric cars keep air pollution in cities down. Not saying there is zero environmental impact but mining is not nearly as bad as fossil fuels can be, and same could be said for nuclear as well.