Why not compare a car that offers multiple variants instead of using different models?
I could tell you that my 1993 Audi S4 was close to 4k pounds to prove that cars haven’t increased in weight that much, it would be irrelevant.
If you compare the same model that comes in gas, hybrid and EV versions you get a realistic portrait. The Kona is one and going from gas to hybrid to EV is a 400lbs jump each time (from about 2900lbs to about 3700lbs).
Truthfully I try not to think about Hyundai at all.
I’m not sure where you’re getting 2900lbs from though, the cheapest 2wd trim is 3005lbs and the AWD ranges from 3203-3505 while the kona electric goes from 3571-3759lbs.
I picked those vehicles specifically though because I have first hand experience riding/driving them and I consider them in roughly equivalent market segments. The other thing to consider is cars designed for multiple power train types are generally heavier than they have to be on the ev version due to unnecessary additional structural components.
Sorry, 3k lbs for the base gas version, 3750lbs for the base electric version, directly from their website. The hybrid version doesn’t exist anymore but it’s not the first time I do this comparison and it fell right in-between.
4150lbs for an ioniq 5, 3500lbs for a Tucson, the first one being on an EV only platform. The Santa Fe is much bigger and that’s the gas model that weights the same as the ioniq 5 in the Hyundai lineup. So there, much better comparison than a bunch of vehicles from different brands. Because let’s be honest, you comparing the weight of a Mach e to an Explorer to show that gas vehicles weight has increased to the point of catching up to EVs doesn’t make much sense. Make an EV the size of an Explorer and see how much that weights! And your other reference is a sedan, which also doesn’t make much sense when comparing to an SUV.
The Base electric version is 3,571lbs per Hyundai’s website.
your other reference is a sedan, which also doesn’t make much sense when comparing to an SUV.
I’m…not comparing it to an SUV. I’m comparing it to the model 3…
Like I said, I’m controlling for market segment. These two are pairs of vehicles someone would feasibly compare against each other if they’re looking for a crossover SUV in one case or an entry-level luxury sedan in the other. Likewise I wouldn’t consider comparing the Tuscon and Ioniq 5 as soon as I saw the pricing difference between the most expensive Tuscon and cheapest Ioniq 5 being $10,000 because they’re not intended for the same buyer.
My mom’s car weighs about 2,315 lbs, so yet again, why are the vehicles getting so fucking heavy that even some of the roads and bridges can’t handle them?
Safety standards coupled with electronics. My 02 RAV4 was 2800 for an SUV and I’m surprised it didn’t kill me. Moderate crosswinds would have me fighting the wheel constantly.
I definitely agree there. I’ve long been for an advocate of increasing the difficulty of getting a license. Public transport will have to significantly improve before that becomes feasible though.
The basic Newtonian law of inertia makes this very relevant when the vehicle is now half a ton heavier than needed, plus waiting on processing lag through some AI system.
When you’re driving around a huge box of safety equipment, you must not even trust yourself behind the wheel.
Ain’t that just fantastic? We live in a world where people are led to believe that driving around an extra thousand pounds or so of hardware is somehow more energy efficient?
When exactly did people get so fucking stupid? Lighter vehicles require less energy to drive, and are also much easier and quicker to maneuver around.
That’s just raw science for you. If you take a 2000 pound car and add another 1000 pounds of hardware to it, that’s less energy efficient, regardless of the source of energy.
The discussion was about tire wear and now you’re bringing up efficiency into the mix.
Safety equipment is mostly about protecting the people inside the car (but also people outside the car), a motorcycle is much lighter than a car, would you rather get t-boned on a motorcycle than a modern car? Or a Model T instead of a 2025 Ford?
Brakes are better so braking distances aren’t any worse.
If even Ayrton Senna could make mistakes, I would rather all the idiots on the road have some tools to assist them and make them safer and seeing how you’re unable to keep up with your own conversation, I would rather see you having tools to make sure you don’t crash if you get distracted.
Yeah! And real airline pilots fly the whole time by the seat of their pants!
Sarcasm aside, antilock brakes, traction control, and driver assistance features are fantastic if/when used correctly. Sure the chip may not be smarter than you, but the chip will always be faster than you. In the time it takes your brain to realize that something has gone wrong where the rubber meets the road, your car’s computers have already started mitigating the issue. What needs to change is the driver’s response to those systems. If they come on, then the driver has gone beyond the driving parameters that the road, weather, and their own skill set will allow, and they need to immediately slow down and reevaluate the conditions.
That’s not always true. I had a situation where a car backed out in front of me, only like 15 feet in front of me. If I (or the car itself) had hit the brakes, the inertia wouldn’t have allowed the car to stop in time, and I would have plowed into the side of his vehicle.
There simply wasn’t enough time to bring the vehicle to a complete stop at that moment, but sure enough that’s what the automated stuff would have done.
I responded within less than a tenth of a second by realizing that an impact was inevitable, and I didn’t want to slam into the side of the idiot’s car, so I did the seemingly counterintuitive thing. I didn’t hit the brakes (no point by then), instead I jerked my steering wheel to the left to avoid a side impact.
Results: Instead of screeching brakes and slamming into the side of his car, I just clipped his back bumper. Much damage avoided, by my own reactions and not relying on some chip that would have just defaulted to brakes that wouldn’t have been able to stop the vehicle in time.
did the seemingly counterintuitive thing. I didn’t hit the brakes (no point by then), instead I jerked my steering wheel to the left to avoid a side impact.
Results: Instead of screeching brakes and slamming into the side of his car, I just clipped his back bumper.
That’s not even true now, modern ice cars have bloated weights to the point of matching or exceeding EV equivalents.
2024 Ford mach e: 4,595 to 4,952 lbs
2024 Ford explorer: 4,345 to 5,076 lbs
2021 Acura TSX: 3709 to 4221 lbs
Current Tesla model 3: 3891 to 4081 lbs
Why not compare a car that offers multiple variants instead of using different models?
I could tell you that my 1993 Audi S4 was close to 4k pounds to prove that cars haven’t increased in weight that much, it would be irrelevant.
If you compare the same model that comes in gas, hybrid and EV versions you get a realistic portrait. The Kona is one and going from gas to hybrid to EV is a 400lbs jump each time (from about 2900lbs to about 3700lbs).
Truthfully I try not to think about Hyundai at all.
I’m not sure where you’re getting 2900lbs from though, the cheapest 2wd trim is 3005lbs and the AWD ranges from 3203-3505 while the kona electric goes from 3571-3759lbs.
I picked those vehicles specifically though because I have first hand experience riding/driving them and I consider them in roughly equivalent market segments. The other thing to consider is cars designed for multiple power train types are generally heavier than they have to be on the ev version due to unnecessary additional structural components.
Sorry, 3k lbs for the base gas version, 3750lbs for the base electric version, directly from their website. The hybrid version doesn’t exist anymore but it’s not the first time I do this comparison and it fell right in-between.
4150lbs for an ioniq 5, 3500lbs for a Tucson, the first one being on an EV only platform. The Santa Fe is much bigger and that’s the gas model that weights the same as the ioniq 5 in the Hyundai lineup. So there, much better comparison than a bunch of vehicles from different brands. Because let’s be honest, you comparing the weight of a Mach e to an Explorer to show that gas vehicles weight has increased to the point of catching up to EVs doesn’t make much sense. Make an EV the size of an Explorer and see how much that weights! And your other reference is a sedan, which also doesn’t make much sense when comparing to an SUV.
The Base electric version is 3,571lbs per Hyundai’s website.
I’m…not comparing it to an SUV. I’m comparing it to the model 3…
Like I said, I’m controlling for market segment. These two are pairs of vehicles someone would feasibly compare against each other if they’re looking for a crossover SUV in one case or an entry-level luxury sedan in the other. Likewise I wouldn’t consider comparing the Tuscon and Ioniq 5 as soon as I saw the pricing difference between the most expensive Tuscon and cheapest Ioniq 5 being $10,000 because they’re not intended for the same buyer.
1880 X 2.2 = 4136lbs
Price doesn’t matter, size does. If someone wants a compact SUV they won’t cross shop with a full sized SUV just because it’s in the same price range.
That’s the Ioniq 5, we were talking about the Kona Electric up until that point were we not? The Ioniq 5 wasn’t mentioned until your next paragraph.
Oops, sorry, I’ve been awake since 3am so my brain is kinda foggy
1705 X 2.2 = 3750
Interesting, now I’m wondering why they advertise different weights based on which site you use.
My mom’s car weighs about 2,315 lbs, so yet again, why are the vehicles getting so fucking heavy that even some of the roads and bridges can’t handle them?
Safety standards coupled with electronics. My 02 RAV4 was 2800 for an SUV and I’m surprised it didn’t kill me. Moderate crosswinds would have me fighting the wheel constantly.
People that feel a chip is somehow smarter and safer than them shouldn’t have a license in the first place.
You’re either a skilled and aware driver, or you’re not.
I definitely agree there. I’ve long been for an advocate of increasing the difficulty of getting a license. Public transport will have to significantly improve before that becomes feasible though.
Ok… Doesn’t change the fact that safety equipment that makes the car safer in case of an accident is heavier than not having it.
The basic Newtonian law of inertia makes this very relevant when the vehicle is now half a ton heavier than needed, plus waiting on processing lag through some AI system.
When you’re driving around a huge box of safety equipment, you must not even trust yourself behind the wheel.
Ain’t that just fantastic? We live in a world where people are led to believe that driving around an extra thousand pounds or so of hardware is somehow more energy efficient?
When exactly did people get so fucking stupid? Lighter vehicles require less energy to drive, and are also much easier and quicker to maneuver around.
That’s just raw science for you. If you take a 2000 pound car and add another 1000 pounds of hardware to it, that’s less energy efficient, regardless of the source of energy.
The discussion was about tire wear and now you’re bringing up efficiency into the mix.
Safety equipment is mostly about protecting the people inside the car (but also people outside the car), a motorcycle is much lighter than a car, would you rather get t-boned on a motorcycle than a modern car? Or a Model T instead of a 2025 Ford?
Brakes are better so braking distances aren’t any worse.
If even Ayrton Senna could make mistakes, I would rather all the idiots on the road have some tools to assist them and make them safer and seeing how you’re unable to keep up with your own conversation, I would rather see you having tools to make sure you don’t crash if you get distracted.
The heavier the vehicle is, the worse the braking distance will be. That’s just raw science, inertia is a thing ya know.
With the same brakes and tires, which have both improved a lot even in the past 20 years.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/performance-trends-mustang-comparison/
124ft braking distance for a stock 1996 Mustang GT
2024? 99ft
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-ford-mustang-gt-performance-package-manual-first-test-review/
Yeah! And real airline pilots fly the whole time by the seat of their pants!
Sarcasm aside, antilock brakes, traction control, and driver assistance features are fantastic if/when used correctly. Sure the chip may not be smarter than you, but the chip will always be faster than you. In the time it takes your brain to realize that something has gone wrong where the rubber meets the road, your car’s computers have already started mitigating the issue. What needs to change is the driver’s response to those systems. If they come on, then the driver has gone beyond the driving parameters that the road, weather, and their own skill set will allow, and they need to immediately slow down and reevaluate the conditions.
That’s not always true. I had a situation where a car backed out in front of me, only like 15 feet in front of me. If I (or the car itself) had hit the brakes, the inertia wouldn’t have allowed the car to stop in time, and I would have plowed into the side of his vehicle.
There simply wasn’t enough time to bring the vehicle to a complete stop at that moment, but sure enough that’s what the automated stuff would have done.
I responded within less than a tenth of a second by realizing that an impact was inevitable, and I didn’t want to slam into the side of the idiot’s car, so I did the seemingly counterintuitive thing. I didn’t hit the brakes (no point by then), instead I jerked my steering wheel to the left to avoid a side impact.
Results: Instead of screeching brakes and slamming into the side of his car, I just clipped his back bumper. Much damage avoided, by my own reactions and not relying on some chip that would have just defaulted to brakes that wouldn’t have been able to stop the vehicle in time.
So what I’m hearing is, you swerved without checking your mirror and still got into an accident with the other car?
Wrong. Totally wrong.
The other dude backed out in front of me, he was the one that didn’t check his mirrors or even turn his head to just fucking look.
Try keeping up will ya, I thought I explained fairly well.
Matter of fact, try re-reading the second sentence of the comment you responded to. I literally said dude backed out in front of me.
I think you need to re-read what you wrote…