this is the way

Have they tried not being spyware?

The response to this needsneeds the Jedi bell curve where it starts with mint and ends with mint… ‘mint just works’

Fox can trot out the perfect defense… they are news entertainment, not news. Checkmate atheists!

So say we all.

NGL, you had me going in the first half

That’s a complete lack of argument for someone who didn’t have a good one.

Let me give a reality check here… First, calling me outraged is pretty humorous. Second, it does diminish real hate crime and you make yourself insufferable by saying otherwise.

Winning over the public is an important part in the fight for equity. If you go to your average person and say lynching a person of color with a burned cross on the front yard is a hate crime and then in the same breath say that “stealing hymnals from a predominantly POC congregation” is a hate crime, you’re going to lose people. Quickly. Your average mainly conservative who hears this will probably make snide remarks about being Social Justice Warriors or the like. Making distinctions is what we do, words matter, and we have to pick our battles.

Stealing from a library with intent is a crime. Keeping LGBTQ kids from learning more about themselves is certainly hate oriented (and/or repression, ignorance and self-hatred). So by your black and white rules it’s technically a hate crime (I don’t disagree with the technicality here, BTW and said that in another comment elsewhere). But these are simply not at the same level. The world is nuanced and full of gray. You can get into all the semantics you have above about legal vs. layperson comments, yadda yadda… in the end, in the real world you lose people who could have been allies and your average person DOES speak with legal frames of reference. REAL allies who vote and support when they see heinous crimes called out. If you lash out at every perceived micro aggression and annoyance as one grouped level of hate, in the real world you’ll lose your audience because you’re saturating them with noise.

I’m not using any oppresor’s arguments here. This is simple reality. It holds true across a massive spectrum of life. And you can be as juvenile as you want by sticking to your unthinking dogma “all hate is hate” and meanwhile, you’ll erode the good will you have and lose what you could have had if you focused down real damage to those you support. Countering this sort of idiotic bible thumping hatred was the point of my first post, BTW - as in “how can we cheekily make their annoying and stupid hate turn against them” because it’s a minor infraction. It still bears paying attention to (which ultimately is probably what you’re trying to convey?) but it doesn’t bear the same level of language or response. Simple as that.

P.S., I plan on running this conversation by some friends who happen to be a gay married couple and expect some giggles at both the original theft and your naivete. And I’m utterly unconcerned that someone won’t find me and ask for my support because of this. You know why? I make it clear who I support and what I do through my actions. In fact, I would support them and tell them to pick their battles and choose their words carefully so they can have a positive impact.

I upvoted this vs. the other comment (yikes). I’m not disagreeing that this is hate motivated and it’s a crime… so yah… technically a “hate crime” but it doesn’t fit the legal definition and yah there should be consequences, but it’s not shooting up a gay bar. My intent wasn’t to minimize the hate, but to discuss how to push back against it for what it is…

There it is. Thanks for the sanity check. I swear people go off half cocked if you aren’t 100% hive minding. The book theft is absolutely motivated by hatred, intolerance and probably repression against LGBTQ in some misguided attempt to Save the Children ^TM. I 100% agree they are looking to cause ignorance and indirectly that could lead to a person not getting information that could help them, but it’s not permanent damage and certainly caused no direct harm.

I hear you but there’s not a court in the land that would uphold book theft as a hate crime. And there are some heinous hate crimes that it would minimize by association (think eye rolling). In my town a guy got nearly destroyed by some drunk bar bros. His face was permanently broken up, he quit work at a friend’s place and as far as I know, left the country. That’s real hate with real impact And I could get behind considerjng targeted shit like this as hate-motivated crime, but then we need some sort of impact level and I have a feeling the fundies would turn it around to say they are being “hate crimed” when there’s a pride parade or some other nonsense…

Absolute trash response. STEALING A BOOK is NOT A HATE CRIME and you diminish real hate crimes against my LGBTQ friends and family by acting like it is. I am absolutely NOT part of whatever problem you think I am. Did you even read the comment? Nevermind… I dont’ care.

Headphones and watch videos? Plus a lot of them have juice, coffee and snacks!

That’s the spirit!

I’m sorry, but stealing a book from a library is not a hate crime, although I get the context and your sentiment. I would say that I’m low-key impressed by their sort of shenanigans as I admire civil disobedience.

It makes me feel like the alternative is to crowdsource some funding, buy all these books back, and… hold the thieves accountable by not allowing them to be lent books until paid or returned. Plus the stupid church people amp up library card holder numbers for funding from local taxes!

I hate that you’ve given me one more plausible concern… this is all predicated on us even having elections in 2028

Like ICE and national guard at every ballot box ti intimidate anyone who isn’t lilly white? And maybe a few of those if they look LGBTQ+ or a bit liberal.

EXACTLY - if it’s not time to fuck with the economy, why pressure only one side to cave?

It doesn’t matter - the “hearings” they had were kangaroo courts that have (to date) 100% denied their benefits upon exit. This really just takes away their paperwork as they realized they can do this with impunity…

Be the change you want to see in the world. I look forward to your list!

In Arizona the water mainly goes to grow alfalfa. In the desert. For the Saudis.