I wait for the WALK sign, I keep it to no more than 5 mph over the speed limit, I use my blinkers, I never jump the line, I keep to the watering schedule, pass the SMOG test every other year, file accurate tax returns…
Champ…or Chump?
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You’re neither champ nor chump. But I would advise you to be a little less rigid because some laws SHOULD be broken. I even had a judge once tell me this. I was arrested for a misdemeanor for providing food and water to the homeless when I was living in Arizona. I was careful not to resist knowing that this fight belonged in the courtroom. At the time I could not afford a private attorney so one was assigned to me who advised me to plead guilty and accept the fine and 30 days in jail. Thankfully, the judge overseeing my arraignment simply dismissed the case out of hand. His words were
Off the record - Young man, some laws are meant to be broken. I applaud your for choosing the right one. On the record - I am dropping the charges and dismissing this case. Furthermore, I am ordering that the arrest record be sealed by the court. This young man presents absolutely no danger to public health, safety or morals. In fact, he did the very charitable thing to help those in need and this is an American value that has no business being criminalized. I do not see making employment difficult for him based on a charitable act.
They have a law against giving food to homeless people? That seems like a conflict with the ICESCR, which the U.S. has signed.
No, the law is against “distributing food without a permit” … which does essentially bar people from giving food to homeless people outside of a soup kitchen or something. But yeah, it’s still a shitty law.
The US violating international law? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.
This was quite a few years ago. It was 2008 so things might very well have changed.
I follow the rules until it’s irrational to follow them. Society needs a common framework for cohesion, but also we need intelligent people not robots.
But who decides what is irrational? Seems like a common sense philosophy, maybe one most of us live by… but so do some of the reckless rule-breakers we love to hate. Because their irrational rule may be essential to our safety.
Maybe the metarule should be “assume an established rule makes sense until proven otherwise”. I feel like it’s hard to go wrong with that in a remotely fair society.
Yeah that’s a good rule of thumb.
You’re right, so we should make rules about what is irrational. But what if the people making the rules are irrational? Or corrupt? Then we should rely on the rationality of the person to make the right call in the moment, weighing rules against rationality. But what if… Ad infinitum.
It’s one of those things, we need to rely on both, and not entirely on one or the other.
Do you have an example? I’m struggling to understand and appreciate this
Blanket rules, like:
Slow speeds around schools. Great during the day, pointless at 3am. Same with waiting for the green light. If there’s a bunch of dudes coming up to the car and I’m the only one around, I’ll be gapping it through the red light.
Hmm another traffic example. Motorbikes don’t trigger the light sensors. Sometimes you have to run the red because otherwise you will be there until a car shows up.
I can’t think of the other side where an irrational rule is also essential for safety, it’s easier to think of rules that make you unsafe in certain circumstances.
People that “drive better intoxicated”. No, I bet you don’t, it just maybe seems that way from your (intoxicated) perspective. This is pretty common for weed and has been heard for alcohol.
If they actually did drive better that way I’d agree that they should always get bombed before they drive, and that the law is stupid.
Mask mandates would be a good one. The American political right largely deemed those to be irrational, but they had strong support among other portions of the country.
I agree in theory. But then I see people breaking the rules when it doesn’t “make sense” (as far as they could see) and then nearly fucking things up. My rule is “if I break this rule and it turns out that I didn’t actually have all the important info such that I really should have followed the rule… Well, that’ll be on me. So how confident am I that I really do have all the relevant info?”
If you use your turn signals you’re a champ in my book. I’m also a champ too. We need more champs in this world
As long as you aren’t bothering anyone live the way you enjoy it, nothing wrong with being part of a society
You’re a champ. As someone who’s broken plenty of laws and gotten away with it with no consequences, all minor things albeit, following the law is generally a good thing to do. Someone else here mentioned not being so rigid about it, I also agree with that. But in general, it’s a good thing to be a textbook good citizen.
Depends on who your asking. Some would call this being a ‘mindless NPC sheeple’ and others would call this ‘being a responsible and respectable member of society’. Check out the replies to the shopping cart litmus test. Some people justify their self interested assholery along the lines of ‘being a free thinker untainted by shame and societal expectations’. I’m of the opinion these people are douchebags without a shred of consideration or care for anything or anyone but themselves.
You shouldn’t be an unquestioning rule follower, nor should you be a sociopathic self intereted dick, I try to find a balance between the two.
Shopping cart litmus test: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/256670690/
Thank you for bringing up the shopping cart litmus test. I had conceptualized something similar before encountering the idea online. I’ve always grabbed a shopping cart from the parking lot on the way in, and will often pull carts out of parking spaces and return them before I leave. I was delighted to discover r/CartNarcs, needless to say!
If you are capable of breaking the rules when it’s necessary, then you’re not a chump.
But if you follow the rules out of an inability to think for yourself, that does make you a chump.
Rules should be there to make everyone as equal as possible. Then following the rules should be awesome!
But some rules are nothing but evilness… not taking an abortion because “following the rules” is shitty for example.
IMHO
You’re not a rule follower if you go over the speed limit.
I knew someone would jump on that one… 😏
There is nuance to rule following. If you’re following blindly and never question why the rule is in place, then you’re a chump. If you question the rule and conclude that it’s there for a good reason and follow it, you’re a champ.
Some rules are arbitrary but society expects them to be followed. Going outside the bounds of these rules can cause upset, so following them is generally the safer bet. However if there’s a rule in place that prevents your happiness, and breaking it has no negative consequences, just fucking do it.
Those are basically all safety things, with the exception of the watering schedule which is good stewardship along with smog testing, which is in turn long term safety.
Thus, you are a champ for protecting yourself and others.
The accurate tax return thing is neither here nor there, since we should just be getting a thing from the government saying “this is what we assume based on the forms filed on your behalf from other entities, tell us if it’s wrong”. The burden to be a tax professional shouldn’t at all be on every single individual, it should be the government’s job to track and figure out since it’s their super bizarre rules that change all the damn time anyway. Most of Europe has it figured out, so…
https://www.businessinsider.com/filing-taxes-america-system-how-other-countries-do-better-2021-8
I don’t want to say chump, but you have to think for yourself. If the walk sign is broken, how long will you stand there waiting? I have a friend who over follows rules. She causes herself so much stress worrying about how many minutes it takes her to eat lunch or what pants she’s allowed to wear to work. It’s 106°! They’re lucky I’m wearing pants at all!
It’s not what you do, it’s how you do it :)
Both probably. Rules depends on the situation. Pushing them is how we make change in the world. Overall I’m a good boy. Passive. I will do whatever to keep the peace. But I have a rebellious streak in me, and a self loathing one apparently, and ended up with a criminal history. I am pretty meek and quiet but if you get me going I will take a stand. I think perhaps I became too flaccid at a certain point. But I’ve pretty much hung out with “rule breakers” my entire life up until this point now that you frame it this way. Some wild ones, too. I can’t blame them at all, mostly. It just depends on which side of the law your on tbh. There is way too much nuance to this lol.
As far as social expectations as rules I usually fail miserably, but can act good enough usually. I have always avoided people. Which is why I like to come here, cause I get to write this out and now I actually feel some type of way.
Champ & chump are not the only options, and I’d say neither
“It’s a spectrum”
