wog is extremely audience specific. You trot that in melbs and it’s often nbd because it’s considered by many to be a reclaimed slur by the community. You say that in any other state and it’s considered reason to punch your teeth in.
“paki” reads to some as australian shorthand, of the kind we are renowned for. It’s really fucking not.
Any rate, there is zero good faith reason to use either word when talking to a fucking cop about a taxi fare.
I live in Adelaide so maybe the culture is different, but calling random people “wogs” has never been acceptable here. The word is acceptable in certain circles - for example, I have played football at many Greek and Italian heritage clubs and it was fine to distinguish between the “wogs” and the “Aussies” in the team - but I can’t imagine anyone is comfortable with strangers randomly calling them “wog” on the street. Especially if it’s confrontational/aggressive.
One of my mates is a Wog and we refer to him as that (he also refers to himself as a Wog) all the time. As far as we’re concerned that’s just an alternate word for his nationality and no different from calling an Australian an Aussie.
I’d argue you could totally use “Aussie” as an insult in the right context and it’s the same with Wog… at least where I live.
Honestly until I’d read this post, I hadn’t even considered that Wog might be insulting. And I don’t think I’ve ever even heard the word “Paki” in my life. No idea what it implies to be honest.
I was surprised about “wog” too. I’m a Melburnian and reading some of the comments here just made me realise it could just be a Melbourne thing. A lot of my friends refer to themselves by that term and want us to use it too as a sign of closeness/affection.
I’d never heard Paki in Australia before either.
Really it’s all about intent and intonation. Given what we call close friends and sworn enemies alike ;)
I grew up watching Cricket in the 80’s and “Paki” literally meant a player from Pakistan, like “Pom” for England, “Kiwi” for New Zealand and “Aussie” for Australia. It wasn’t a slur at all. Thanks to the Internet, I am aware that it has a very different connotation in the UK. The term has fallen out of use for obvious reasons, but if I heard someone referring to the Pakistani Cricket team as “Pakis”, I would no assume any malice at all.
That said, Sam Kerr has lived in the UK for long enough that she would be aware this is not appropriate. Ever.
Not that we know what the details are, and this pure speculation isn’t really achieving anything.
Not really, I think this is a widespread cultural misconception we have in Australia. Slurs don’t magically become less damaging or offensive because “it was just a joke bro” or “I didn’t mean it like that”. This extends to all areas like ableism, homophobia, etc. It’s never okay to just casually direct offensive words at people you don’t already have some kind of understanding with.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you should just use it at random and it’s acceptable. As with even words like “queer” you should know whether they’re OK with using the term to refer to someone rather than just assume they’re OK with it.
If you meant intent as in the context and setting in which the words are used (like towards a mate) then I definitely agree. I have just seen other people use that word today to mean “there’s nothing wrong with what she said because she didn’t mean it in a racist way” which I don’t agree with at all.
Completely agree. I will admit Australians are terrible at casual racism then when someone gets (rightly) riled up the response is “it was just a joke!” is super common too, which is just doubly insulting.
The difference between a racial slur and an acceptably shortened country name is a matter of history. “Aussie” should never be seen as a slur because it has never been a commonly used racial insult. Context is important.
No idea why anyone would think “wog” is less offensive in Australia, but "paki’ does have a different connotation in the UK since it’s often the go-to slur used against any person who appears to be of South Asian descent. I don’t think it’s as commonly or broadly used here.
To be honest, wog is not a term I’m super familiar with. I’ve almost never heard it IRL. I get the impression that it (and the people it refers to) may be more common in NSW and Vic than it is up here in Qld?
So my understanding is that in Australia it refers to southern Europeans—Italians, Greeks, etc. And that it has been substantially reclaimed, in that people to whom the term applies will often identify with it and use it themselves. It may or may not be offensive for someone else to use the term, depending on context.
In the UK, it apparently refers to black and South Asian people, and has not undergone the same reclamation process, so it is much less likely to be contextually acceptable.
It’s common in SA, we have a lot of migrant families and their descendants living here. As I said in the other reply, it is an acceptable word in certain situations but is definitely not widely accepted to direct at strangers. I have seen people take offence to the word across all aspects of life (school, sport, work, etc). Even “reclaimed” slurs can be offensive and damaging, I think it’s important to always be mindful of that.
It’s like how in America ‘Jap’ is racist, whereas here ‘Nip’ is racist. Both are short hands for the country name Japan/Nihon(Nippon).
Or the British turning Ning-Nong/Nig-Nog into their version of the n word because some politician used it as such in the 60s or something, whereas here we shortened it to nong and it’s kept its original meaning of a foolish person.
It’s the cultural history behind the words that make them racist and just because we speak dialects of English doesn’t mean our words have followed the same trajectories.
People are saying ‘wog’ and ‘paki’ are less offensive in Australia?
wog is extremely audience specific. You trot that in melbs and it’s often nbd because it’s considered by many to be a reclaimed slur by the community. You say that in any other state and it’s considered reason to punch your teeth in.
“paki” reads to some as australian shorthand, of the kind we are renowned for. It’s really fucking not.
Any rate, there is zero good faith reason to use either word when talking to a fucking cop about a taxi fare.
I live in Adelaide so maybe the culture is different, but calling random people “wogs” has never been acceptable here. The word is acceptable in certain circles - for example, I have played football at many Greek and Italian heritage clubs and it was fine to distinguish between the “wogs” and the “Aussies” in the team - but I can’t imagine anyone is comfortable with strangers randomly calling them “wog” on the street. Especially if it’s confrontational/aggressive.
One of my mates is a Wog and we refer to him as that (he also refers to himself as a Wog) all the time. As far as we’re concerned that’s just an alternate word for his nationality and no different from calling an Australian an Aussie.
I’d argue you could totally use “Aussie” as an insult in the right context and it’s the same with Wog… at least where I live.
Honestly until I’d read this post, I hadn’t even considered that Wog might be insulting. And I don’t think I’ve ever even heard the word “Paki” in my life. No idea what it implies to be honest.
I was surprised about “wog” too. I’m a Melburnian and reading some of the comments here just made me realise it could just be a Melbourne thing. A lot of my friends refer to themselves by that term and want us to use it too as a sign of closeness/affection.
I’d never heard Paki in Australia before either.
Really it’s all about intent and intonation. Given what we call close friends and sworn enemies alike ;)
I grew up watching Cricket in the 80’s and “Paki” literally meant a player from Pakistan, like “Pom” for England, “Kiwi” for New Zealand and “Aussie” for Australia. It wasn’t a slur at all. Thanks to the Internet, I am aware that it has a very different connotation in the UK. The term has fallen out of use for obvious reasons, but if I heard someone referring to the Pakistani Cricket team as “Pakis”, I would no assume any malice at all.
That said, Sam Kerr has lived in the UK for long enough that she would be aware this is not appropriate. Ever.
Not that we know what the details are, and this pure speculation isn’t really achieving anything.
To be honest I don’t follow any sports at all, was just curious about what was going on. But you’re right, speculation doesn’t help anyone.
Not really, I think this is a widespread cultural misconception we have in Australia. Slurs don’t magically become less damaging or offensive because “it was just a joke bro” or “I didn’t mean it like that”. This extends to all areas like ableism, homophobia, etc. It’s never okay to just casually direct offensive words at people you don’t already have some kind of understanding with.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you should just use it at random and it’s acceptable. As with even words like “queer” you should know whether they’re OK with using the term to refer to someone rather than just assume they’re OK with it.
If you meant intent as in the context and setting in which the words are used (like towards a mate) then I definitely agree. I have just seen other people use that word today to mean “there’s nothing wrong with what she said because she didn’t mean it in a racist way” which I don’t agree with at all.
Completely agree. I will admit Australians are terrible at casual racism then when someone gets (rightly) riled up the response is “it was just a joke!” is super common too, which is just doubly insulting.
The difference between a racial slur and an acceptably shortened country name is a matter of history. “Aussie” should never be seen as a slur because it has never been a commonly used racial insult. Context is important.
No idea why anyone would think “wog” is less offensive in Australia, but "paki’ does have a different connotation in the UK since it’s often the go-to slur used against any person who appears to be of South Asian descent. I don’t think it’s as commonly or broadly used here.
To be honest, wog is not a term I’m super familiar with. I’ve almost never heard it IRL. I get the impression that it (and the people it refers to) may be more common in NSW and Vic than it is up here in Qld?
So my understanding is that in Australia it refers to southern Europeans—Italians, Greeks, etc. And that it has been substantially reclaimed, in that people to whom the term applies will often identify with it and use it themselves. It may or may not be offensive for someone else to use the term, depending on context.
In the UK, it apparently refers to black and South Asian people, and has not undergone the same reclamation process, so it is much less likely to be contextually acceptable.
It’s common in SA, we have a lot of migrant families and their descendants living here. As I said in the other reply, it is an acceptable word in certain situations but is definitely not widely accepted to direct at strangers. I have seen people take offence to the word across all aspects of life (school, sport, work, etc). Even “reclaimed” slurs can be offensive and damaging, I think it’s important to always be mindful of that.
Why would Paki be racist here?
It’s like how in America ‘Jap’ is racist, whereas here ‘Nip’ is racist. Both are short hands for the country name Japan/Nihon(Nippon).
Or the British turning Ning-Nong/Nig-Nog into their version of the n word because some politician used it as such in the 60s or something, whereas here we shortened it to nong and it’s kept its original meaning of a foolish person.
It’s the cultural history behind the words that make them racist and just because we speak dialects of English doesn’t mean our words have followed the same trajectories.