On Wednesday, the agency reversed its long-held position that there's no link between vaccines and autism. Outside experts said they are "appalled" by the change.
dont associate autism with intellectual differences
Coming from a good place, but you don’t know what you’re talking about
There are absolutely differences, they just tend to even out on an overall IQ score. There’s a sleight positive correlation even, but that’s likely due to emotional intelligence not being measured on an IQ test and the very low ends of the IQ range may not ever get tested for autism.
But are you honestly telling people that autism isn’t correlated to better pattern recognition or anything else?
Like, there’s a myriad of ways you’re wrong here, but to insist that there are zero differences is just unbelievable. You can’t honestly believe that, do you?
I feel that you are being unfairly hostile to the person you responded to, while ignoring the content of what the initial commenter said and why the person you responded to pushed back on that.
I’m not disagreeing with you that there aren’t differences, but do you have autism or are you a mental health professional versed in or specialized in autism? If neither, I would like to respectfully ask that you refrain from commenting about the differences and distinctions of autism.
Our science and understanding of autism is still evolving steadily, and e.g. in regards to what you specifically stated about IQ scores, I don’t feel that they fully capture and measure intelligence in autistic individuals (wherever they are on the spectrum) for a variety of reasons.
I’m autistic, my dad was autistic, and my son is autistic. If I may speak, yeah we’re all “smart.” My dad won a state wide chess championship at 14 years old. I build data platforms on small teams where I’m usually the only engineer servicing a handful of analysts. My son has been hyperlexic since he was two years old. Although my son is diagnosed level II autistic, meaning he needs more support in a few places.
The gotcha in our case is that we’ve got pretty poor social ability, and even worse emotional regulation. We get distracted easily when bored, but we can hyperfocus on one thing for 16 hours while forgetting to eat, sleep, and piss. Also, empathy is difficult/unnatural when we’re frustrated. Self awareness is more a learned skill than a natural one, and we can be egotistical at times.
My dad was your classic absent dad, unless you count when I had met him at 11yo and we went out drinking/fishing together. Or again when I was 14 and he felt compelled enough to reach out and insult me. Him being “smart” is probably a narrow way of viewing things. We’re really not the life of the party… but “smart?” Sure, I guess, by some basic measures.
I value your response and feedback, but I’d like to raise a point in response -
Even if there are common themes, I argue that autism generally presents differently in every individual and is likely an umbrella term describing a multitude of differences, as recent research is showing.
From my understanding, there’s a lot of facets to determining where somebody is on the spectrum - support needs required, social ability, verbal ability, overall functioning, (and even if I disagree that it’s particularly enlightening) IQ tests and scoring, and so forth.
I’d speculate that in you and your family’s case, there is likely a strong indicator that the mechanisms causing the differences is inherited and/or possibly to some degree environmental. The mechanisms causing the differences are likely complex, but shared in some respects between you and your family members who are also autistic and are quite similar in presentation.
I’m sure there are many on the spectrum that consider themselves to be challenged intellectually, at least in some respects. I’m one of those people. I don’t see myself as “smart” and I do my best to not think of myself as “dumb”. The challenges are definitely present though and I’m slow in certain areas. I’m not being overly harsh on myself, but it takes me an inordinate amount of time to digest information and complete tasks in certain domains. I believe I have a spiky skills profile.
We get distracted easily when bored, but we can hyperfocus on one thing for 16 hours while forgetting to eat, sleep, and piss.
Have you considered that you and your family may be AuDHD? Research is showing that there is a lot of overlap between autism and ADHD. Given what I’ve read online, I’ve been considering being evaluated for ADHD as well. No need to answer, but I’m curious because of my own personal situation and resonance with you and your family’s specific experience.
Hi, thanks for the thoughtful reply. It’s funny that you ask — I was duel diagnosed with ADHD and Autism. My son’s doctor is also having him evaluated for ADHD now, as well. So, I think you’re onto something there.
I agree with everything else you’ve said as well. I’m just a bit tapped right now with work stuff. Cheers friend!
but do you have autism or are you a mental health professional versed in or specialized in autism?
While there’s no way that you could have known that I have a degree in psychology and for years worked with special needs populations ranging from “passable” to “I was changing grown adults diapers”…
You literally just called me out for not having social graces and hyper fixating on a narrow aspect of a comment…
Autism is a spectrum, literally all of us are on it. That’s literally what a spectrum is in a psychological context. Everyone is “on the spectrum” that’s what makes it a spectrum.
I don’t feel that they fully capture and measure intelligence in autistic individuals
So…
You agree with me? Because I literally just said that…
But no test can “fully” measure anyone intelligence. It’s always going to be approximation that works for a majority of people.
I sat thru like 5 hours for a Wechsler, just to be told my overall wasn’t reliable because I was statistically insignificant. It was still valuable data because my lowest section scores were still quantifiable. But there’s no reason to have the basic test be able to fully measure everyone. If I cared enough I could take a more in depth test to find out.
But why the fuck didn’t you ask questions instead of all those assumptions you just made?
Why even reply to me like you’re going to trust what I say, when you could have looked up this stuff online waaaaaaay before I took the time to reply?
I responded because you were being arguably hostile to the other commenter in tone throughout your response, and you’re being uncharitable and hostile to me here too, from my perspective. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but it doesn’t seem like civil behavior.
With respect to you, I can’t engage further in this conversation.
So you replied in the first place because you disliked my tone, but you were comfortable insulting me in your reply…
And when my tone didn’t change after you insulted me…
You replied again to insult me again and say you didn’t want to talk to me?
There is absolutely no logic in what you’re doing.
At any step you could have just not replied with insults, and none of this would be happening.
Why don’t you just block me? Because replying to police tone while simultaneously insulting someone isn’t going to be effective for me, and most likely not anyone else.
Seriously, in general saying:
I can’t engage further in this conversation
Is never ever ever going to be as effective at ending a conversation than deleting the reply instead of hitting “reply” and posting it
I did not insult you. Your tone does not read as friendly or anything close to it. I’m recognizing that I may be too sensitive here, so I’m refraining from reporting you.
Can you block me then since you want to be polite?
I know that’s a big ask because you can’t even stop replying. But this is not the first time youve responded to me talking to someone else to tell me I’m not polite. Then you immediately say you don’t want to “communicate” but never stop replying.
Which is pretty obviously trolling. I had you blocked for a while, so I don’t know how much you’ve been doing this. But the tab signed me out and the first comment was civil enough I took you off to reply.
So I think the best solution is we just block each other, right? You want to say you’re being polite, then do the polite thing and just ignore me instead of rehashing this again at some later date.
Nothing about my comments will change, so if you don’t like them. Take the very easy step to never see them again.
Unless your trolling, which is what saying “I don’t want to discuss me insulting you” and then continuing to reply over and over. Regardless, hopefully I don’t fuck up and think you’re worth takng off again.
I believe the connection is that those who believe vaccines cause autism HAVE autism.
dont associate autism with intellectual differences, actual 1980s age idea of autism
Coming from a good place, but you don’t know what you’re talking about
There are absolutely differences, they just tend to even out on an overall IQ score. There’s a sleight positive correlation even, but that’s likely due to emotional intelligence not being measured on an IQ test and the very low ends of the IQ range may not ever get tested for autism.
But are you honestly telling people that autism isn’t correlated to better pattern recognition or anything else?
Like, there’s a myriad of ways you’re wrong here, but to insist that there are zero differences is just unbelievable. You can’t honestly believe that, do you?
I feel that you are being unfairly hostile to the person you responded to, while ignoring the content of what the initial commenter said and why the person you responded to pushed back on that.
I’m not disagreeing with you that there aren’t differences, but do you have autism or are you a mental health professional versed in or specialized in autism? If neither, I would like to respectfully ask that you refrain from commenting about the differences and distinctions of autism.
Our science and understanding of autism is still evolving steadily, and e.g. in regards to what you specifically stated about IQ scores, I don’t feel that they fully capture and measure intelligence in autistic individuals (wherever they are on the spectrum) for a variety of reasons.
I’m autistic, my dad was autistic, and my son is autistic. If I may speak, yeah we’re all “smart.” My dad won a state wide chess championship at 14 years old. I build data platforms on small teams where I’m usually the only engineer servicing a handful of analysts. My son has been hyperlexic since he was two years old. Although my son is diagnosed level II autistic, meaning he needs more support in a few places.
The gotcha in our case is that we’ve got pretty poor social ability, and even worse emotional regulation. We get distracted easily when bored, but we can hyperfocus on one thing for 16 hours while forgetting to eat, sleep, and piss. Also, empathy is difficult/unnatural when we’re frustrated. Self awareness is more a learned skill than a natural one, and we can be egotistical at times.
My dad was your classic absent dad, unless you count when I had met him at 11yo and we went out drinking/fishing together. Or again when I was 14 and he felt compelled enough to reach out and insult me. Him being “smart” is probably a narrow way of viewing things. We’re really not the life of the party… but “smart?” Sure, I guess, by some basic measures.
I value your response and feedback, but I’d like to raise a point in response -
Even if there are common themes, I argue that autism generally presents differently in every individual and is likely an umbrella term describing a multitude of differences, as recent research is showing.
From my understanding, there’s a lot of facets to determining where somebody is on the spectrum - support needs required, social ability, verbal ability, overall functioning, (and even if I disagree that it’s particularly enlightening) IQ tests and scoring, and so forth.
I’d speculate that in you and your family’s case, there is likely a strong indicator that the mechanisms causing the differences is inherited and/or possibly to some degree environmental. The mechanisms causing the differences are likely complex, but shared in some respects between you and your family members who are also autistic and are quite similar in presentation.
I’m sure there are many on the spectrum that consider themselves to be challenged intellectually, at least in some respects. I’m one of those people. I don’t see myself as “smart” and I do my best to not think of myself as “dumb”. The challenges are definitely present though and I’m slow in certain areas. I’m not being overly harsh on myself, but it takes me an inordinate amount of time to digest information and complete tasks in certain domains. I believe I have a spiky skills profile.
Have you considered that you and your family may be AuDHD? Research is showing that there is a lot of overlap between autism and ADHD. Given what I’ve read online, I’ve been considering being evaluated for ADHD as well. No need to answer, but I’m curious because of my own personal situation and resonance with you and your family’s specific experience.
Hi, thanks for the thoughtful reply. It’s funny that you ask — I was duel diagnosed with ADHD and Autism. My son’s doctor is also having him evaluated for ADHD now, as well. So, I think you’re onto something there.
I agree with everything else you’ve said as well. I’m just a bit tapped right now with work stuff. Cheers friend!
Thanks for engaging and thanks for answering my question! Have a nice rest of your day!
While there’s no way that you could have known that I have a degree in psychology and for years worked with special needs populations ranging from “passable” to “I was changing grown adults diapers”…
You literally just called me out for not having social graces and hyper fixating on a narrow aspect of a comment…
Autism is a spectrum, literally all of us are on it. That’s literally what a spectrum is in a psychological context. Everyone is “on the spectrum” that’s what makes it a spectrum.
So…
You agree with me? Because I literally just said that…
But no test can “fully” measure anyone intelligence. It’s always going to be approximation that works for a majority of people.
I sat thru like 5 hours for a Wechsler, just to be told my overall wasn’t reliable because I was statistically insignificant. It was still valuable data because my lowest section scores were still quantifiable. But there’s no reason to have the basic test be able to fully measure everyone. If I cared enough I could take a more in depth test to find out.
But why the fuck didn’t you ask questions instead of all those assumptions you just made?
Why even reply to me like you’re going to trust what I say, when you could have looked up this stuff online waaaaaaay before I took the time to reply?
I responded because you were being arguably hostile to the other commenter in tone throughout your response, and you’re being uncharitable and hostile to me here too, from my perspective. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but it doesn’t seem like civil behavior.
With respect to you, I can’t engage further in this conversation.
So you replied in the first place because you disliked my tone, but you were comfortable insulting me in your reply…
And when my tone didn’t change after you insulted me…
You replied again to insult me again and say you didn’t want to talk to me?
There is absolutely no logic in what you’re doing.
At any step you could have just not replied with insults, and none of this would be happening.
Why don’t you just block me? Because replying to police tone while simultaneously insulting someone isn’t going to be effective for me, and most likely not anyone else.
Seriously, in general saying:
Is never ever ever going to be as effective at ending a conversation than deleting the reply instead of hitting “reply” and posting it
On some level you have to understand that, right?
I did not insult you. Your tone does not read as friendly or anything close to it. I’m recognizing that I may be too sensitive here, so I’m refraining from reporting you.
You’re not being overly sensitive; they’re being a cunt.
Can you block me then since you want to be polite?
I know that’s a big ask because you can’t even stop replying. But this is not the first time youve responded to me talking to someone else to tell me I’m not polite. Then you immediately say you don’t want to “communicate” but never stop replying.
Which is pretty obviously trolling. I had you blocked for a while, so I don’t know how much you’ve been doing this. But the tab signed me out and the first comment was civil enough I took you off to reply.
So I think the best solution is we just block each other, right? You want to say you’re being polite, then do the polite thing and just ignore me instead of rehashing this again at some later date.
Nothing about my comments will change, so if you don’t like them. Take the very easy step to never see them again.
Unless your trolling, which is what saying “I don’t want to discuss me insulting you” and then continuing to reply over and over. Regardless, hopefully I don’t fuck up and think you’re worth takng off again.
, this is a much more debilitating condition.