Good insights, and not just software developers, really. We don’t like ads, sensationalism, or anything reeking of bullshit. If we have to talk to someone to find out the price, the product may as well not exist.
Good insights, and not just software developers, really. We don’t like ads, sensationalism, or anything reeking of bullshit. If we have to talk to someone to find out the price, the product may as well not exist.
Has anyone been to any kind of convention for nerdy things. Nerds are so captured by the marketing and products being sold that they let it take over their personality and they can’t stop buying junk.
Yeah, this is self-aggrandizement from a group of people who consistently believe they’re smarter than everybody else, when in reality they just lack self-awareness. Nerds will smugly post in this thread using their overpriced mechanical keyboard as a wall of Funko pops and Star Wars slop looms behind them. I worked in marketing for a long time and I know damn well I’m not immune to it.
I saw people recommending keychrons, went and bought one thinking I made a smart choice. didn’t even google what kind of issues they have… I’ll remember next time I’m about to throw money at some random crap that a few people recommend.
Pretty much, yeah.
The article points out how a bunch of specific techniques don’t work on programmers. That’s because they’re aimed at project managers, not programmers. And yeah, they work. Hardly any programmers willingly chose Jira for their ticketing system, but project managers love that shit, and it’s everywhere.
All it really means is that it takes a different set of marketing techniques to reach programmers. They generally don’t bother, because programmers don’t typically control the budget directly.
I believe that thinking you’re immune to something makes you even more vulnerable, because it creates a cognitive blind spot. If you think you can’t make mistakes, you don’t stop to wonder if you are making one.
You just described Geeks. Geek and Nerd group labels can sometimes apply to the same people, but they are not synonymous, and a person can be one without the other.
https://laist.com/shows/take-two/whats-the-difference-between-a-geek-and-a-nerd
I knew somebody would try to play that card. People who insist on that distinction are the least self-aware of all.
You’re resorting to personal attacks without knowing who I am, what I do, what I do or don’t have on the wall behind me. You apply a blanket label on all people who you class a certain way, and when I disagree with your label and its implications, and recommend nuance, you class me further.
It sounds like you think very highly of yourself, or lowly of everyone else, or both.
What makes your opinions here worthwhile?
You are not immune to marketing (or to propaganda in general). The more you become at ease with that fact, the better equipped you will be to deal with the deluge of shit that is coming for all of us.
As I said in another reply, I worked in marketing for a long time, so I have first-hand experience that most others here don’t. Many have a rather narrow definition of what they’re willing to label “advertising” and don’t realize how much is actually happening all around them. I’m applying a blanket label because the blanket is covering all of us, even those who fervently deny it and insist that it’s simply warm and cozy wherever they are.
Everyone arguing with this account needs to realize that they might as well be talking to an LLM. Look at how advertisers think:
https://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/pepsi-arnell-021109.pdf
Just like an LLM can’t distinguish between truth and fiction they can’t distinguish between meaningful information and advertising BS. The people here will never win their argument against them because they classify all human communication as an act of manipulation, so the definition of advertising will be made more and more broad until they say “look, you were swayed”.
Excuse me but “it” is not my preferred pronoun. That’s pretty disrespectful.
I was trying to resolve the ambiguity between “this account” (which is indeed an object) and “the people here”.
I try not to misgender, so I have edited it to “they”. Not because I respect anything an advertiser says though.
I disagree, I don’t fall into the category you stated. My walls are lined with 80s memorabilia and 3d printed things I have created. I reject anything advertised to me and will only purchase tech that I have sought out that meets my needs.
If this irony, good job because I think most people will fall for it.
I don’t think it is. I know a few people like this, and im heading in that direction myself. The only kinds of “ads” that work on me are when a number of equally nerdy people I know find a new thing, and they’ve demonstrated that it has helped them with something or they are genuinely enjoying using it. Like 3D printing. Its semi-pointless most of the time but it is a genuinely fun hobby, which when combined with 3D modeling and post-processing skills becomes an actual craft. I didn’t get into it until a good number of people around me did.
80s memorabilia and 3D printers are not exempt form marketing. They are products just like anything else.
They’re not exempt from marketing. I am. I only use proof-of-use from those around me.
Case in point: Bambu and Autodesk sponsoring every maker Youtuber. (Fuck both Bambu and Autodesk, BTW.)
Wait. I thought bambu made good printers? Why fuck them?
*I ask because I want a 3d printer for christmas and don’t know which to get. The bambu seems great.
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/bambu-lab-controversy-deepens-firmware-update-sparks-backlash-240588/
TL;DR: they’re infecting it with (even more) proprietary garbage, which is a slap in the face to a community built on the ethos of the RepRap project. Everything in hobbyist 3D printing – the software, the firmware, and the hardware – is built on open-source designs, and Bambu’s attitude is to take all that and then not give back.
I got a curved, split, tented ortholinear monstrosity with a built in trackball and I’m finally done. I get that it’s stupid and a waste of money but my hands feel so good typing all day on it
I did too. I didn’t get it to look cool, I got it because I have carpal tunnel and I don’t want to have surgery.
I like the clicky, it allows me to type longer, and I can fidgit with the firmware and do what I want with it.
If I got it because it looks techy then I’d just be a poser
They’re not nerds. They’re posers.
I don’t have a single funko pop or Star Wars toy or whatever. I have a Keychron keyboard that cost me $70, while it is more costly than the average membrane I like mechanical ones. I never buy new if I can (usually this is a time constraint, I.e I broke my phone and I need to replace it quick one because my job relies it). I Adblock everywhere I possibly can to not see the ads but I genuinely believe I’m immune to advertising.
You are not - you just don’t see it as such. Even if you didn’t use the internet at all (which we can see is not the case) you would still fall victim to its network effects.
deleted by creator
Then they ain’t nerds, sorry.
Yeah, I think scottsman are the ones that are actually immune to marketing.
What say you to this example of a Scotsman that is infected with marketing?
Ah damn, my arguement must have completely come apart, because that’s absolutely a scottsman, and he is falling for the marketing. I don’t think there’s any comeback for that.
I would call my brother a geek, a collector of shit, expensive cards, moulded plastics, I love him for it but I see it as vapid. Whereas I am a nerd, I research and act with caution when it comes to spending, I own a mechanical watch which I can repair myself, I buy leather shoes with soles that can be replaced at a cobblers, run Linux on my desktop, custom ROM on my phone.
Geeks are nerds who enjoy gimmicky things, nerds are geeks seeking purpose.
Right? I’ve seen the walls of Funko Pops… nerds definitely are not immune to marketing.
do people actually buy those? I honestly thought they were some kind of money laundering thing. I’ve never once saw one sell.
Maybe it’s a whale thing, most people don’t give a shit but the people who do have to buy all of them to sate their neurosis
I’ve seen maybe 3 passable figures by them. Mind boggling that they actually sell.
Working in tech, I’ve seen a lot of them in people’s cubicles.
They aren’t fucking nerds then. Nerds don’t buy Funko Pops.
I can name 3 or 4 people who own walls of Funko pops and I can tell you they wouldn’t know an IDE from MS Word. None of them went to college either.
They’re posers.
If you say so… but some of the Funko collectors I know are definitely die-hard nerds. Having bad taste doesn’t exclude you from nerddom.
Is that marketing or is it just finding stuff they want to own?
It’s marketing making them think they want to own that stuff.
How do you think you “found” it? A whole supply chain of people, from branding to packaging to advertising, made it so that you can “find” things on websites that are themselves outright advertisements or at least funded by them.
It’s a mistake to attribute purchases to marketing just because a marketer breathed the same air at some point. First-degree advertising influence and umpteenth-degree influence are very very different.
I mean, I probably wouldn’t buy a car from a company I’d never heard of, but that’s mainly because there are none. If I happened to buy a car from <insert company here> after researching what was available, I wouldn’t attribute that to <insert company here>'s marketing department. At least, not unless they bribed the independent reviewers, ratings boards, etc.
Same deal with most of my tech purchases, except that in that space there often are brands I’ve never heard of. And I’m (usually) savvy enough to tell when they’re legit and when they’re not. (I know more than I ever wanted to know about SSD controllers and I’m kind of angry about it.)
You’re right that nobody is truly “immune” to marketing, but as a matter of degrees, there’s a big difference across groups. There are people out there who look at ads and register them as useful information. There are people who intentionally click on ad banners on Instagram, rather than treating them like digital leprosy. There are people who click on the first Amazon referral listicle they find on Google and then treat it like independent journalism. There are people who use GoDaddy, when the only possible reason anyone would is because that racecar driver is hot. These are not behaviors you should expect among the kind of nerds this article is talking about.
Perhaps, but I’d argue people who click on ads knowing full well it’s an ad are more enlightened than the
nerd- sorry, “geek” - who thinks they operate on a higher plane of existence, not knowing that Youtube review was bought and paid for or that Reddit post was made by an LLM.You’re really dating yourself with this reference, and I am by understanding it. Incidentally, who do you think bought all that gamer girl bathwater?
This is a bit different because it isn’t really an emotional decision - they are are fungible, functionality being equal. But would you choose, say, a computer case without caring about the way it looks or makes you feel?
Honestly, I have no idea. Did people actually buy it? I thought the whole thing was a joke.
I’m not about to no-true-scotsman nerdhood here, but I will say that I don’t relate to whatever group bought into that. I’m just not that kind of nerd, I guess.
Which raises another point: there are no monolithic demographics of any significant size. Anytime you generalize about “nerds” (or any other group), nothing you say will be 100% correct across the board. Generalizations are still useful when viewed in terms of trends and distribution curves. It’s fair to say that men are taller than women even though there are short men and tall women. It would be more precise to say that the height distribution for men skews taller than for women, but I think most people intuitively understand the truth behind the simple, plain English generalization anyway, even if they don’t think of it in precise terms.
The way it looks: yes, absolutely. My current box is metallic black with a window. If I could’ve bought a functionally equivalent one with no window at the same price, I would have. If I could’ve bought a functionally equivalent one in hot pink for cheaper, I probably would have. (There is a functional aspect to appearance as well, since it’s in my field of vision and bright colors could be distracting, so I’d have to think about the pink. “Black” and “no window” are on my wanted-features list for this reason, but other factors can override those wants.)
The way it makes me feel: well, cramped space, bad cable management options, and poor airflow will make me feel bad, so…arguably? But I’d consider that a matter of functionality more than feeling.
I feel like at this point we should talk about the oft-neglected difference between marketing and advertising. There is an aspect of marketing that directs product development down a path toward what they understand people actually want. When done well, this is good. It should be the marketing department’s job to learn what problems people have with products in the field, and make sure those problems are addressed in future products. Advertising is a subset of marketing that tries to directly influence consumer behavior to buy whatever they’re trying to sell.
For example, there was probably a marketer involved in the location and design of my favorite coffee shop, and if they did their job well then they deserve credit for helping make the kind of place I enjoy sitting in. Cheers to them for that.
But I’m no more likely to go into Dunkin or Starbucks just because they are advertised incessantly. You might find that hard to believe, and I wouldn’t blame you! I can’t prove it to you. And I understand that among the general population, repeated exposure affects perception, and by extension behavior, in subtle and deeply-rooted ways. I don’t imagine that I am immune to the effects that, for example, cause preschool children to prefer the same food from McDonalds bags vs unbranded bags (see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17679662/). But we are more than our base nature, and these effects can be negated in practice. I suspect tech nerds in general have internalized stronger countermeasures than the general population. Not full immunity, because reality is too messy, but a notable resistance.
First off, thanks for the thoughtful and detailed reply.
Of course, and marketing itself works with generalizations about demographics and targetting etc. As in anything there are extreme outliers, but there’s definitely a bell curve, and I doubt most people are as near the poles as they think.
Sounds lke you’re primarily a value shopper in this case, which is fair, but for every one of you there’s a r/battlestations poster who spent more for something aesthetic - and unlike others here I won’t start “no true nerd-ing” those people away out of convenience. I to a certain degree am one of them, and I’m definitely a nerd (as is everyone on Lemmy). I’m sure there are different things you choose to splurge on.
In the industry we’d rarely refer to those people as marketers (more like “market research”, basically statisticians and much less cool) but you’re right that it’s on the same continuum. Focus groups fall in there too. I wouldn’t really count it in this argument though because for most of us it’s a fait accompli when we’re faced with whatever is on the store shelf. It isn’t something we can be “immune” to in any meaningful way, short of becoming a self-sufficient hermit.
But do you have a favourite coffee place, or restaurant? How about a favourite hotel chain? We often don’t realize all the subconscious triggers we’re subjected to.
As I think more about this, I have a new theory:
So perhaps the real story is simply “lots of tech marketers don’t understand their audience”. Which I think is true. When companies put their spec sheets and feature lists front and center, I’m definitely more likely to pay attention than if I have to dig through screen after screen of meaningless fluff to get any relevant details. So that’s something marketers could (but generally don’t) do to influence me.
And I’m comfortable with that. Yes, please make better shit, out of greed if nothing else. Stand out by not being an infuriating weasel, respect my time and intelligence, and I will reward you with my time and perhaps money.
I’d say I have three favorite coffee shops. One place in particular has the tastiest coffee to drink black, another has better flavored drinks and a generally cooler vibe (local art on display, community bulletin board, that kind of thing), and a third is a better environment to sit and work on my laptop. I consider those my three favorites. None of them are big chains, and none of them advertise, as far as I know.
For restaurants, I have a bunch of favorites for different foods. I have a favorite Indian place, favorite pizza place, favorite sandwich shop, etc. Again, nothing I consider a “favorite” is a chain. I guess if I had to pick a favorite chain, it would be…Chipotle? But I don’t feel like marketing draws me there beyond the fact that if they didn’t have successful marketing, they wouldn’t be anywhere I go in the first place. And still, if I see a small independent burrito place in walking distance, I’m probably going there first. Chipotle isn’t so much a “favorite” as it is a serviceable oasis when I’m in a food desert.
For hotel chains…nope, not even a little. I couldn’t tell you a single real difference between Marriot and Hilton. If their marketing departments have tried to instill in me any kind of emotional connection with their brands, they have utterly failed.
It’s kind of the same with airlines. They’re all the same in almost every meaningful way. Every time I fly, I consult my shitlist and try to avoid what’s on it, but at this point pretty much every airline has earned a spot on my shitlist. The only emotions I feel toward any airlines are bitterness, frustration, and anger.
I guess this is why hotels and airlines push their reward points so hard; they know they’re all the same and cannot possibly earn “loyalty” otherwise. If I were a different kind of nerd, perhaps I’d spend the time to optimize corporate reward points, but at a glance it seems like a sucker’s game to me so I mostly ignore it.
It depends on the brand and who their target market is. I’d argue that Framework, for example, market in this way.
It’s marketing.
Marketing. It is very effective.
Yeah but I don’t think that’s marketing, if you’re going to a con for something, you’re likely very passionate about it and passionate people love to scoop up everything they can that relates to their beloved hobby or franchise.
Also, nerds tend to have a good amount of disposable income on that stuff
The cons themselves are marketing. Heavy marketing. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to say. Vendors (and even artists for crying out loud) are willing to pay top dollar for booths to sell stuff. On the surface, they are their namesake - conventions. Dig any deeper, and they are giant pop-up malls.
Posers. All of them.
Nerds enjoy a hobby, like tabletop games.
Posers buy Funkos and toys that they never open.
Nerds have fun. Posers try to look like they do.
Nerds in arrested development over a franchize is not the same as seeing any ad and then that makes them want to buy a product.