I have a modest set of solar panels on an entirely ordinary house in suburban London. On average they generate about 3,800kWh per year. We also use about 3,800kWh of electricity each year. Obviously, we can't use all the power produced over summer and we need to buy power in winter. So here's my question: How big a battery would we need in order to be completely self-sufficient? Background …
Potential energy (in joules) is mass (in g) times height (in meters) times 9.8 m/s^2 .
So in order to store the 30 kWh per day that the typical American house uses, you’d need to convert the 30 kWh into 108,000,000 joules, and divide by 9.8, to determine how you’d want to store that energy. You’d need the height times mass to be about 11 million. So do you take a 1500 kg weight (about the weight of a Toyota Camry) and raise it about 7.3 meters (about 2 stories in a typical residential home)? (this is wrong, it’s only 0.001 as much as the energy needed, see edit below)
And if that’s only one day’s worth of energy, how would you store a month’s worth? Or the 3800kwh (13.68 x 10^9 joules) discussed in the article?
At that point, we’re talking about raising 10 Camrys 93 meters into the air, just for one household. Without accounting for the lost energy and inefficiencies in the charging/discharging cycle.
Chemical energy is way easier to store.
Edit: whoops I was off by using grams instead of kg. It actually needs to be 1000 times the weight or 1000 the height. The two story Camry is around a tablet battery’s worth of storage, not very much at all.
There seems to be an error in your calculation:
Up to the 11 000 000 kgm required it is correct. However the Toyota Camry with 7.3 m provides only 11 000 kgm. So you miss a factor of 1000. You would need 1000 cars lifted the height of your home. For just one day (or a few days in more efficient home)
And not just that, but safety and cheapness akd accessibility of the materials. Water is pretty cheap and common. If it spills, probably no big deal (flooding notwithstanding) unlike battery acid. Not as likely to explode (sometimes steam explodes stuff).
is it really easier and cheaper to store the energy needed for a home in a chemical battery?
Yes. A 5kwh battery is about 50kg and smaller than a carry-on suitcase. String 6 of them together and you’ve got 30 kWh stored with no moving parts. Anker has that for about $15,000, maybe $30k installed.
How much does a 3-story elevator cost? What about one that can capture the stored potential energy on the way down, and not break down?
Hmm… this might be easier to do with an electric car. Put it on an inclined track, and then drive uphill to store energy, and go downhill to release the energy.
Potential energy (in joules) is mass (in g) times height (in meters) times 9.8 m/s^2 .
So in order to store the 30 kWh per day that the typical American house uses, you’d need to convert the 30 kWh into 108,000,000 joules, and divide by 9.8, to determine how you’d want to store that energy. You’d need the height times mass to be about 11 million.
So do you take a 1500 kg weight (about the weight of a Toyota Camry) and raise it about 7.3 meters (about 2 stories in a typical residential home)?(this is wrong, it’s only 0.001 as much as the energy needed, see edit below)And if that’s only one day’s worth of energy, how would you store a month’s worth? Or the 3800kwh (13.68 x 10^9 joules) discussed in the article?
At that point, we’re talking about raising 10 Camrys 93 meters into the air, just for one household. Without accounting for the lost energy and inefficiencies in the charging/discharging cycle.
Chemical energy is way easier to store.
Edit: whoops I was off by using grams instead of kg. It actually needs to be 1000 times the weight or 1000 the height. The two story Camry is around a tablet battery’s worth of storage, not very much at all.
There seems to be an error in your calculation: Up to the 11 000 000 kgm required it is correct. However the Toyota Camry with 7.3 m provides only 11 000 kgm. So you miss a factor of 1000. You would need 1000 cars lifted the height of your home. For just one day (or a few days in more efficient home)
Honestly that is way, way more reasonable than I was expecting. This isn’t half as bad of an idea as I thought it would be
Pumping 1500L of water up into a tower doesn’t seem difficult or expensive.
Actually, yes. Lifting the weight of a Toyota Camry 2 stories seems reasonable for a day’s worth of energy storage for a house.
I’m not sure how expensive the lift and generator will be, but the weight itself can be anything that’s sufficiently heavy.
You say chemical energy is way easier to store, but is it really easier and cheaper to store the energy needed for a home in a chemical battery?
And not just that, but safety and cheapness akd accessibility of the materials. Water is pretty cheap and common. If it spills, probably no big deal (flooding notwithstanding) unlike battery acid. Not as likely to explode (sometimes steam explodes stuff).
Yes. A 5kwh battery is about 50kg and smaller than a carry-on suitcase. String 6 of them together and you’ve got 30 kWh stored with no moving parts. Anker has that for about $15,000, maybe $30k installed.
How much does a 3-story elevator cost? What about one that can capture the stored potential energy on the way down, and not break down?
Hmm… this might be easier to do with an electric car. Put it on an inclined track, and then drive uphill to store energy, and go downhill to release the energy.
You would just use the car wheels itself if you’re doing all that - how do you think it would store energy driving uphill?