Luz shares her apartment with her husband, also from Mexico and also undocumented. They met in America. He works in a bar. They have a young daughter who was born in America and is therefore a US citizen.
It’s nice that your family had the money for lawyers and such, and had the background to be accepted.
Plenty of others don’t have those advantages, but they still want to improve their lives, or escape from terrible political or criminal oppression. They are human, too, with families that they love as much as anyone else loves theirs, and they want to improve the lives of their families, and their descendants.
Who cares how they get here? They came seeking a better life. I would rather have more people like that, than elitist pigs who feel entitled to America, and we should all get their permission to live our lives.
You have absolutely no idea how legal immigration to the US works. My family immigrated from Iraq nearly a decade and a half ago. We had NOTHING. We had no property, no savings, no investments, and no money for anything like lawyers or the like. Yet despite our struggles, we kept being patient and did everything necessary to enter the country legally.
If you unironically think that the only way to immigrate to this country is by being extraordinarily rich or by sneaking illegally, then you’re too ignorant for this conversation. This applies doubly so if you can’t even comprehend why illegal immigration is wrong on both a legal and moral level. Not only is it a breach of national security when you have this many people enter the country without documentation or vetting, but it’s also a slap in the face for all the people like my family who went through a lot to get in the country the right way AND to all the people and families out there who are still waiting their turn to get in. Why should they be shafted in favor of people who choose to cut the line, intentionally circumnavigate immigration laws, and still feel entitled to receive the same treatment as legal immigrants?
Immigration is a privilege, always has been and always will be. It is not right and never was. Nobody is entitled to be here or any other country they are not citizens of. My family had the privilege of moving here and so did yours. If people want to move to another country, great, but they have to do it through the legal channels. If they reject you then you have to respect it, and if their system takes a long time then you just have to wait. You can’t just skip immigration laws just because you don’t feel like it. By doing so, you automatically forfeit any sympathy for your immigration case (the only exceptions being genuine asylum cases from either Mexico or Canada). Why should sympathy go to you instead of someone who is going through similar circumstances by immigrated legally or is waiting their turn legally? The answer is it shouldn’t
Uh, yes I do. I helped a very close friend of mine immigrate to America. She came here from Venezuela illegally, then immediately started the process.
Don’t tell me that it isn’t expensive, and doesn’t take lawyers, because I lent her several thousand dollars to cover the costs. Even though she was working hard to resolve her situation, she was still technically illegal while the process played out.
That was about 10 years ago, and she just became a legal citizen in December.
Your family was from Iraq, a country that we deliberately broke. So while your family didn’t have much, it’s likely that your family had special treatment because of America’s special relationship with Iraq at the time. I doubt your situation was the same as the person who just slips in from some random country.
What are you even on about lmao? Ever since the Persian Gulf war back in the 1990s, Iraq was heavily sanctioned by the US and immigration was very difficult, and this was doubly so after 9/11 and the 2003 invasion. The US ever since then has had ADDITIONAL layers of mandatory screening, background checks, paperwork, and interviews compared to other countries. The heightened scrutiny that Iraqis had to go through when applying to immigration to the US is iconic. That’s the “special treatment” my family went through. Not to mention that we were Iraqi citizens living in Syria at the time when we did our immigration process so even if there was any of that elusive special treatment, it didn’t cover us. But that’s the thing, you literally know nothing about me, my family, or the immigration process to get here. You’re just making up assumptions to rationalize your ignorance.
Also, If we assume that your story about Venezuelan friend is true, it directly contradicts the very point you made in your previous comment. The OC specifically pointed out how he gets annoyed when illegal immigrants get more entitled than his family, who has struggled greatly to get into this country legally. You immediately accused him and his family of being privileged, wealthy, and having the right background even though you know nothing about OC, his family, what they went through, or what’s required to immigrate here legally. Right after saying this, you go ahead and provide this anecdote where you talk about how your friend ILLEGALLY immigrated here, PAID her way through the system by hiring American lawyers using thousands of dollars of her own money as well as money you lent her, and then had the right background to get accepted in the end. That’s literally the privilege you were accusing the OC’s family of having.
If you have no idea of legal immigration actually works, why are you talking so confidently about it to people who have actually gone through it? It seems your only experience with immigration is a single indirect case of illegal immigration, and your knowledge doesn’t extend past that. Where do you get off telling us what our experiences were like when you don’t even know what you’re talking about? That’s just arrogance.
My friend also arrived with nothing, got a job and worked her ass off, using nearly every penny to pay for the process. Like many, she started illegal, but became a citizen. That’s the point.
You don’t have the skills to be offered employment in the US? Why should Americans care about the billions of uneducated poor people? Certainly can’t take care of the whole world
I didn’t say we shouldn’t grant asylum to Ukrainians, that’s legal immigration. In fact, the illegal immigrants sour everyone’s support for asylum seekers. Why should a Mexican crossing the border in peace time be more worthy of living in the US than someone who literally got their home town taken over during war?
Why should Americans care about the billions of uneducated poor people?
Because we LITERALLY invite those very people to come here:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
That’s from “The New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus. It’s the poem on the plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty, and openly states America’s traditional position on welcoming immigrants to America. It doesn’t ask for the rich, or educated, it invites the “homeless,” “tempest tost,” and “wretched refuse.” Not exactly the pinnacles of society.
America has always been the place where people can come and fulfill their dreams, not where foreign Sociopathic Oligarchs can come and ruthlessly exploit our resources and labor force. I’d much rather have the motivated immigrant who came here to work hard and raise their family, than some foreign wealthy predator who only wants to make life worse for all American citizens.
If you don’t want those people to come here, then rip that plaque off the Statue of Liberty, and announce to the world that the borders are officially closed, and isolate America from the rest of the world. .
That’s some poet, as a naturalized American I disagree. Let in people legally, with high skills and leave a bit of room for the really unfortunate (people from war-torn countries)
You can disagree all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that America is a nation of immigrants. Getting pissed off about it goes against the very fabric of this nation.
Who cares how they get here? They came seeking a better life. I would rather have more people like that, than elitist pigs who feel entitled to America, and we should all get their permission to live our lives.
No one is entitled to go anywhere they want whenever they want, anywhere on earth. Why would or should the United States be any different? The only people entitled to any country are the citizens of that country.
The reason someone would care about this is because society is maintained by rule of law.
Another reason is that we do not live in a post scarcity utopia, and resources are not unlimited.
I know it’s not the same, but do you support China sending immigrants to Tibet and annexing the country? How about the rest of their neighbors and the South China Sea? What about Russia doing the same in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea?
If national autonomy is something to be respected then border laws and immigration laws have to be as well. If you only agree with those things only for non-wealthy countries like the US and EU members, which I suspect might be the case, I would call that biased and hypocritical.
Ah yes, if one side is violating the rule of law then we can just throw laws out the window and do whatever we want. Always bring yourself down to their level, that’s how you win.
“But the alcoholic neighbor’s kids down the street are allowed to smoke and skip middle school, so why can’t I mom?”.
I find it really interesting how poor people committing minor crimes is so often talked about in terms of the rule of law while rich people are committing felonies in broad daylight and the government is violating the Constitution on the daily. But sure, persons unauthorized to be here are here, I don’t mind that ICE is detaining legal immigrants and citizens in violent raids. It’s the people overstaying their visas and jumping the border that I’m more concerned about.
I don’t mind that ICE is detaining legal immigrants and citizens in violent raids. It’s the people overstaying their visas and jumping the border that I’m more concerned about.
Both things can be true, this is not a zero sum between open borders and masked ICE agents abducting people.
I sincerely wish all the white collar crime and shit would get more press, especially since wage theft surpasses property crime every year. I won’t stop caring about property crime because there are bigger fish out there.
I heartily disagree with how ICE is currently operating and how legal status is being removed from people to get more “low hanging fruit” to inflate numbers. Obama managed to deport millions of illegal immigrants without the theatrics, or destruction of reputation for the department so we know it can be done.
This doesn’t mean that I cannot or should not also be concerned about illegal immigration or that I should support jumping the border or overstaying visas.
That’s great. In theory I believe people who violate the law should be handled in a safe and sane manner as well. We need to do some serious work updating the laws and procedures regarding immigrating to this country. They are archaic and cruel. I will not be made to fear people who simply come here for a better life, who provide vital labor, and who are less likely to commit violent crime than people who were born here. As long as a law separates families, keeps people in inhumane conditions, or puts literal children before a judge without counsel or so much as an interpreter I am against that law in its entirety.
Dude, why are you defending the people who have explicitly stated that they hate you, and don’t care if you die?
You are so immersed in in your own bigotry, that you haven’t figured out that America no longer has “the rule of law” any more. You are an immigrant, therefore you are OFFICIALLY an enemy of the government. There is no legal or illegal, documented or undocumented.
Trump’s immigration architect, Stephen “PeeWee Himmler” Miller, has said that he wants to reduce the population of America to 100 million, and he wants them all to look like him (God forbid). That means he intends to get rid of a lot of people one way another, and that includes ANYONE from anywhere else.
It can’t be stressed enough how much these people HATE you. When this all melts down, you will be LUCKY if all that happens to you is you get sent back to your home country.
It’s nice that your family had the money for lawyers and such, and had the background to be accepted.
Plenty of others don’t have those advantages, but they still want to improve their lives, or escape from terrible political or criminal oppression. They are human, too, with families that they love as much as anyone else loves theirs, and they want to improve the lives of their families, and their descendants.
Who cares how they get here? They came seeking a better life. I would rather have more people like that, than elitist pigs who feel entitled to America, and we should all get their permission to live our lives.
You have absolutely no idea how legal immigration to the US works. My family immigrated from Iraq nearly a decade and a half ago. We had NOTHING. We had no property, no savings, no investments, and no money for anything like lawyers or the like. Yet despite our struggles, we kept being patient and did everything necessary to enter the country legally.
If you unironically think that the only way to immigrate to this country is by being extraordinarily rich or by sneaking illegally, then you’re too ignorant for this conversation. This applies doubly so if you can’t even comprehend why illegal immigration is wrong on both a legal and moral level. Not only is it a breach of national security when you have this many people enter the country without documentation or vetting, but it’s also a slap in the face for all the people like my family who went through a lot to get in the country the right way AND to all the people and families out there who are still waiting their turn to get in. Why should they be shafted in favor of people who choose to cut the line, intentionally circumnavigate immigration laws, and still feel entitled to receive the same treatment as legal immigrants?
Immigration is a privilege, always has been and always will be. It is not right and never was. Nobody is entitled to be here or any other country they are not citizens of. My family had the privilege of moving here and so did yours. If people want to move to another country, great, but they have to do it through the legal channels. If they reject you then you have to respect it, and if their system takes a long time then you just have to wait. You can’t just skip immigration laws just because you don’t feel like it. By doing so, you automatically forfeit any sympathy for your immigration case (the only exceptions being genuine asylum cases from either Mexico or Canada). Why should sympathy go to you instead of someone who is going through similar circumstances by immigrated legally or is waiting their turn legally? The answer is it shouldn’t
Uh, yes I do. I helped a very close friend of mine immigrate to America. She came here from Venezuela illegally, then immediately started the process.
Don’t tell me that it isn’t expensive, and doesn’t take lawyers, because I lent her several thousand dollars to cover the costs. Even though she was working hard to resolve her situation, she was still technically illegal while the process played out.
That was about 10 years ago, and she just became a legal citizen in December.
Your family was from Iraq, a country that we deliberately broke. So while your family didn’t have much, it’s likely that your family had special treatment because of America’s special relationship with Iraq at the time. I doubt your situation was the same as the person who just slips in from some random country.
What are you even on about lmao? Ever since the Persian Gulf war back in the 1990s, Iraq was heavily sanctioned by the US and immigration was very difficult, and this was doubly so after 9/11 and the 2003 invasion. The US ever since then has had ADDITIONAL layers of mandatory screening, background checks, paperwork, and interviews compared to other countries. The heightened scrutiny that Iraqis had to go through when applying to immigration to the US is iconic. That’s the “special treatment” my family went through. Not to mention that we were Iraqi citizens living in Syria at the time when we did our immigration process so even if there was any of that elusive special treatment, it didn’t cover us. But that’s the thing, you literally know nothing about me, my family, or the immigration process to get here. You’re just making up assumptions to rationalize your ignorance.
Also, If we assume that your story about Venezuelan friend is true, it directly contradicts the very point you made in your previous comment. The OC specifically pointed out how he gets annoyed when illegal immigrants get more entitled than his family, who has struggled greatly to get into this country legally. You immediately accused him and his family of being privileged, wealthy, and having the right background even though you know nothing about OC, his family, what they went through, or what’s required to immigrate here legally. Right after saying this, you go ahead and provide this anecdote where you talk about how your friend ILLEGALLY immigrated here, PAID her way through the system by hiring American lawyers using thousands of dollars of her own money as well as money you lent her, and then had the right background to get accepted in the end. That’s literally the privilege you were accusing the OC’s family of having.
If you have no idea of legal immigration actually works, why are you talking so confidently about it to people who have actually gone through it? It seems your only experience with immigration is a single indirect case of illegal immigration, and your knowledge doesn’t extend past that. Where do you get off telling us what our experiences were like when you don’t even know what you’re talking about? That’s just arrogance.
My friend also arrived with nothing, got a job and worked her ass off, using nearly every penny to pay for the process. Like many, she started illegal, but became a citizen. That’s the point.
You don’t have the skills to be offered employment in the US? Why should Americans care about the billions of uneducated poor people? Certainly can’t take care of the whole world
I didn’t say we shouldn’t grant asylum to Ukrainians, that’s legal immigration. In fact, the illegal immigrants sour everyone’s support for asylum seekers. Why should a Mexican crossing the border in peace time be more worthy of living in the US than someone who literally got their home town taken over during war?
Because we LITERALLY invite those very people to come here:
That’s from “The New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus. It’s the poem on the plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty, and openly states America’s traditional position on welcoming immigrants to America. It doesn’t ask for the rich, or educated, it invites the “homeless,” “tempest tost,” and “wretched refuse.” Not exactly the pinnacles of society.
America has always been the place where people can come and fulfill their dreams, not where foreign Sociopathic Oligarchs can come and ruthlessly exploit our resources and labor force. I’d much rather have the motivated immigrant who came here to work hard and raise their family, than some foreign wealthy predator who only wants to make life worse for all American citizens.
If you don’t want those people to come here, then rip that plaque off the Statue of Liberty, and announce to the world that the borders are officially closed, and isolate America from the rest of the world. .
That’s some poet, as a naturalized American I disagree. Let in people legally, with high skills and leave a bit of room for the really unfortunate (people from war-torn countries)
You can disagree all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that America is a nation of immigrants. Getting pissed off about it goes against the very fabric of this nation.
No one is entitled to go anywhere they want whenever they want, anywhere on earth. Why would or should the United States be any different? The only people entitled to any country are the citizens of that country.
The reason someone would care about this is because society is maintained by rule of law.
Another reason is that we do not live in a post scarcity utopia, and resources are not unlimited.
I know it’s not the same, but do you support China sending immigrants to Tibet and annexing the country? How about the rest of their neighbors and the South China Sea? What about Russia doing the same in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea?
If national autonomy is something to be respected then border laws and immigration laws have to be as well. If you only agree with those things only for non-wealthy countries like the US and EU members, which I suspect might be the case, I would call that biased and hypocritical.
This country doesn’t give two shits about the rule of law anymore, look at our president
Ah yes, if one side is violating the rule of law then we can just throw laws out the window and do whatever we want. Always bring yourself down to their level, that’s how you win.
“But the alcoholic neighbor’s kids down the street are allowed to smoke and skip middle school, so why can’t I mom?”.
I find it really interesting how poor people committing minor crimes is so often talked about in terms of the rule of law while rich people are committing felonies in broad daylight and the government is violating the Constitution on the daily. But sure, persons unauthorized to be here are here, I don’t mind that ICE is detaining legal immigrants and citizens in violent raids. It’s the people overstaying their visas and jumping the border that I’m more concerned about.
Both things can be true, this is not a zero sum between open borders and masked ICE agents abducting people.
I sincerely wish all the white collar crime and shit would get more press, especially since wage theft surpasses property crime every year. I won’t stop caring about property crime because there are bigger fish out there.
I heartily disagree with how ICE is currently operating and how legal status is being removed from people to get more “low hanging fruit” to inflate numbers. Obama managed to deport millions of illegal immigrants without the theatrics, or destruction of reputation for the department so we know it can be done.
This doesn’t mean that I cannot or should not also be concerned about illegal immigration or that I should support jumping the border or overstaying visas.
That’s great. In theory I believe people who violate the law should be handled in a safe and sane manner as well. We need to do some serious work updating the laws and procedures regarding immigrating to this country. They are archaic and cruel. I will not be made to fear people who simply come here for a better life, who provide vital labor, and who are less likely to commit violent crime than people who were born here. As long as a law separates families, keeps people in inhumane conditions, or puts literal children before a judge without counsel or so much as an interpreter I am against that law in its entirety.
Removed by mod
Dude, why are you defending the people who have explicitly stated that they hate you, and don’t care if you die?
You are so immersed in in your own bigotry, that you haven’t figured out that America no longer has “the rule of law” any more. You are an immigrant, therefore you are OFFICIALLY an enemy of the government. There is no legal or illegal, documented or undocumented.
Trump’s immigration architect, Stephen “PeeWee Himmler” Miller, has said that he wants to reduce the population of America to 100 million, and he wants them all to look like him (God forbid). That means he intends to get rid of a lot of people one way another, and that includes ANYONE from anywhere else.
It can’t be stressed enough how much these people HATE you. When this all melts down, you will be LUCKY if all that happens to you is you get sent back to your home country.
Removed by mod
Then I guarantee your family didn’t struggle much at all to emigrate to the states legally.
Really doesn’t sound like your family struggled as much as these people do