seems pretty epic to me! :p

on the surface they do a lot right. warrant canary, no logs, solid infrastructure, profitable.

for me, i really don’t like the weird ways that they market. super misleading to imply that they make a person “anonymous” and/or greatly improve your privacy beyond you sending them your information instead of your isp. i also really dont like the lack of transparency, particularly with closed-source clients. i also really don’t like the number of controversies that nord has been in, even insofar as getting hacked. i don’t want my vpn provider to have any, let alone quite a few, of these controversies.

in terms of the model, proton is transitioning to a non-profit which reinforces why they are so well-regarded by the community. long history of doing right by consumers, where it matters most.

my bad, i misunderstood. thanks.

i don’t think we disagree in a vacuum but bringing that up in the context of this particular thread is probably unhelpful

beehaw is a safe-space, we shouldnt villify the experiences/needs of people who need alt-text. this could be game changing for people who need it.

so cool man, thanks for sharing this

i doubt you’ll get banned lol, it’s probably not that deep to the admins.

if anyone is concerned about it, just open the instance ToS and ctrl+f “name”. im sure it’s not important.

i think you should read the replies to the hackernews post, there’s some interesting discussion there with more nuance. particularly the thread started by user “kens”

not to come off overly negative- steve also does great work. i hope we hear from LMG soon <3

not to cast doubt on anything he says here, but steve has increasingly been making ‘dunk’ videos for the past year or two. i feel like his channel has been trying to find (or create) exposés, because those are the videos that pop off. starting from the video of that NZXT case that caused fires.

again, not to cast doubt on the experiences of billet labs, but i question steve’s intentions in presenting this. i hope this discussion doesn’t end up revolving around gamers nexus.

i just tried this and got a more fence-sitting result of “here are the pros and cons, there should be public discussion before we know if it’s good or bad”.

but your result is fascinating.

youtube music shilling incoming, ignore if dont care :p

awesome if you’re a spotify user, but to anyone on the fence, youtube music is just so much comfier. and if you’re a privacy advocate or anything adjacent, i’m sure you’re still using youtube in some way anyway so you may as well cut out spotify, another exploitative company, and just leave yourself with youtube.

there are plenty of free services that let you convert spotify playlists into youtube music ones, and you can listen to them using mobile frontends like InnerTune or web frontends like HyperPipe. free offline listening, no ads, good frontends, it’s just comfy and you can cut out a dependency on spotify. besides, if you do end up ever trying to export anything from your spotify (playlists, downloading songs, etc), chances are it’ll use the youtube api anyway.

it’s comfyyyyy

also double kudos for joining the fairphone angels, that’s such a cool project. huge respect there

there’s a lot of valid stuff in here, particularly the expandable storage part. i was wrong there, i distinctly remember being frustrated at the offset because of media i’d read describing the opposite. i should’ve double checked that, thanks for calling me out on that.

i still think the issue with the updates is a major concern. when a person hears that they’re receiving 7 years of updates, they expect to be receiving updates in a timely fashion and to receive as many as those updates as possible.

i think throughout many of your points here you’re creating plausible deniability for fairphone in their marketing, which is in line with what you said at the end. i promise you, people are not doing this extensive research like you are. chances are, they watch an MKBHD video about the phone and then decide because of a lack of tech literacy. that’s not necessarily a bad thing, people follow different paths in life and have different interests. i couldn’t tell you anything about the technology of the door and hinges i just installed in my bedroom. but a person is entitled to be made aware of all of these asterisks and i feel like that discussion is not happening enough.

to imply that fairphone technically accomplishes their promises, and technically that this is okay because it’s what the industry does, simply isn’t good enough for me. if this marketing was pushed in another direction, as in to say “we can’t give you the service of other phones at an equal price point. we do our best to get you the best hardware as we can, but that comes with limitations, and we try our best to mitigate this with software, but we’re only a small team so these updates and patches come out very late” then that gives another image. but they don’t, they use catchy slogans even on their website like “Reliable, secure and ready to do business. The perfect match for your company’s values”. i feel like doing research into all of the drop-downs in their website will give you a different impression because you find some more honesty there, but i hope we agree that the reason these things are not mentioned/inferred on the front page is because they know it isn’t as pretty, and the average person who ‘just wants a phone’, and lives a more ethical life, won’t be pursuing that.

i think that any individual point that i reply to will wrap back around to the misleading marketing anyway and i don’t want to create a post where i just make the same point 15 times (to an extent i feel i already may have), i dont think anyone would want to read that. the main point being that you have a level of tech literacy that allows you to research the specifics of these caveats but a normal person simply does not understand and does not want to. these people who are buying a device that is worse than alternatives at a similar price point, understanding that the tax they’re paying is for their ethical values, deserve to have a better understanding of what they’re getting into. deliberately avoiding this is a big concern to me.

i can understand if my post came off overly negative, i also replied to my own thread on the linked post saying that we shouldn’t make good the enemy of perfect, and that when a person understands all these things, if the fairphone still fits your needs then it’s a great option. i have a bitter taste in my mouth from the way that fairphone handles marketing, especially when they adopt the moniker of Ethical and Sustainable. and i want to share some of these potential concerns with people who may be less tech literate.

there’s a good chance we simply disagree here on the importance of this, and that’s fine. i think we will and that’s why i opened this with “there’s a lot of valid stuff here” because i understand this isn’t where everyone draws their line in the sand. i hope other readers can see this discussion and understand where their priorities lie. or at the very least, make a more educated purchase.

there’s no news on the specifics of the device just yet, just a couple of sneak peaks. so it’s hard to say if it will be returning the headphone jack, bringing back expandable storage, or using newer models of SoC that aren’t immediately out of OEM update support. if these problems can be addressed, then the hardware of the phone will be fair game in my books.

however, the misleading marketing and the shameful software support are likely to unchange. the software support is a massive gaping hole that i feel like isn’t being discussed enough. taking 6 years to provide 3-4 years of software support shouldn’t be touted as excellence.

EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, there was some more discussion on this thread.

to answer your other questions, i do have a used pixel with grapheneOS now. much better phone, much better experience and much better piece of mind. i use a good all-covering case so nobody asks what phone i use, because i’d hate to be a billboard for google.

the biggest selling point of the fairphone for me was its’ unique form factor. i was asked what phone i had A LOT. when i took the back off, people’s mind broke. this created a segway for me to talk about right-to-repair with people who otherwise would have never cared. it’s a great tool to open discussion into ethical hardware and software. i miss having those conversations as regularly as i was.

i wrote this comment on another post recently, i think you might find some value. the thread has some good discussion. note that i regret using a fairphone, but i dont regret supporting the company. in a ‘lesser than two evils’ sense, fairphone is MUCH less evil.

the fairphone company makes grand promises of 7 years support, despite historically really doing 2-4 years of support very badly. to the point where when the fairphone 4 released, it was going to take so long for it to make an android upgrade that a FOSS group CalyxOS ended up making the port for them. being this late for security and feature releases is insane, especially when they make claims outside of SoC OEM support periods despite knowing that they can’t provide those updates. the fairphone 3 even launched on the same day as android 10 but instead of quickly porting over, they instead ported over their next line of phone (fairphone 3+)

the phone removed expandable storaged and a headphone jack, with obscene pricing for storage upgrades and at the same time as they released their unrepairable line of wireless products. this is just begging for e-waste.

the claims of being ethically sourced are not universal to the whole phone, the fair trade gold standard is limited to some parts that they source.

they have hardware for an extra SIM slot on the fairphone 4, but made it unusable to the user. clearly just an anti-consumer move.

there are other reeasons, and you’ll also notice im not providing sources here. a lot of this is readily available info online and frankly im tired, i hope you can search these things up yourself if you want to confirm. i’m saying these things in good faith if that makes you feel more comfortable. there are reasons to consider the fairphone, but know that if you’re doing this for a ‘long-lasting’ phone, then you’re only getting that on the hardware side and even then you’re vastly overpaying for the value of what you receive.

i still support fairphone in their journey to making mainstream fully modular phones with readily available replacement parts and open schematics. as a big ‘fuck you’ to smartphone producing companies, the fairphone does its’ job magnificently and provides an excellent example of why samsung, apple, google etc are lying scum when they say these things aren’t possible. if a small company like fairphone have been doing it since their infancy, we shouldn’t believe that big tech can’t.

EDIT: i was wrong about the expandable storage, please read replies to get see some further discussion.

i’m half way through reading only but this is such a cool resource, thanks for sharing. strongly recommend actually reading it, for anyone lurking.

that’s beyond my ballpark, i’m not a software guy so i only ever contribute money. this page is on their website, maybe give it a look and see if anything seems doable to you.

https://wiki.lineageos.org/contributing

e-waste is unethical, try keeping your phone if you can. keep an eye out for LineageOS and see if they end up making a port for your device. if your plan is to de-google your life, stock android can also do that just fine for you. iirc, there are no google services on stock android.

i stand by my comments about fairphone. there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. if you are dead-set on a new device, look into getting a used/refurbished pixel phone and installing GrapheneOS. you won’t find a more private/secure phone mobile system, it’s vouched for by Edward fuckin Snowden. try get one of the newer models (6 or 7 series) because you’ll get longer software support life.

the fairphone still isn’t a bad option if you want the hardware to be as ethical as you can realistically manage, fairphone uses several fairtrade gold sourced parts, has open schematics and is almost fully repairable. just bear in mind that it is not designed to last on the software side and fairphone’s priority is straying towards profit; it’s the ‘lesser of two evils’ in my mind, i guess.