Negatively_Positive

I think you are the one who does not get it. Unless Beehaw completely defederate from everyone, posts on Beehaw is a part of the federation, meaning all federate communities that beehaw agrees to connect with.

This is why I said the whole defederate/federate thing Beehaw people do not seem to get or do not want to understand. You are part of this, we are not part of you. If you want your own community, commit to it and disconnect. If you want the benefit of the federation, you do have to work with other and deal with consequence.

Based on what you wrote, it doesn’t look like you used reddit for too long. Most of the more interesting things on reddit are very niche (hobbyists), very personal (old askreddit, helpful supportive communities for minorities, big comment threads about global events, etc.), or very regional specific (food, culture, belief, etc.) There are quite a lot of people still use small subs on reddit exactly for those reasons, finding very technical or obscure knowledge is only possible thanks for small communities. That is what many wish to replicate here.

I do not get what you even mean by saying niche subs will survive as they did before. No, there are a lot of sub drama and not all sub survive drama, and this time reddit itself is trying strip contents and agency out of the users and mods. What do you even mean saying it won’t effect small subs?

If you just doom scroll lookking at meme pics and comments you aren’t really experiencing much other than dopamine content. Just because you do not engage in smaller communities doesn’t mean that these changes aren’t affecting those people.

I realize the confusion now. I forgot that from the perspective of people on Beehaw, they would not see me posting from kbin immediately without checking the handle.

To paraphrase my point: I support the development of lemmy as a federated project, but I do not support the goal of Beehaw (which they do have on the sidebar and I read it more than one). This purely comes from my own experience and preference with curated communities.

I do not have a problem with Beehaw defederate from others.

However, I do not see defederate is a solution to the many issues with lemmy as a whole. I disagree with the original post on federation, but I do agree with a lot of their replies about the technical limitation.

Because Beehaw is not the entirety of the federation? I am not sure if I follow your question. I am not on Beehaw.

I support the exploration of federation concept (which at this point, the tool and experience are not yet developed to that point), and support the people and communities going through the transition from reddit to this deferation system (which a very small percentage of people went through to here).

Beehaw supports neither of these. They backed out, and they want to create curated communities specifically.

My energy is spend on the many communities I do engage with… on reddit. Those communities have barely any post here because the majority of people do not trust these platforms. It makes sense that I want the federation as a whole (ignoring beehaw) to not sink before the people can move to these spaces.

Well what you said is what I did. I never support the goal of beehaw to make a curated communities in the first place because I do not think such idea is healthy (nor it represent much for things outside of USA imo), but it really does not effect me in any way.

What I strongly disagree with is the idea of defederation is a “normal” thing to do: it’s only make sense specifically because they want to make a curated communities, and nothing else. People who paint it otherwise are making excuse from my point of view (which is the point of my original post). And the strife I have with them is the whole drama they essentially caused.

I do use beehaw and saw those posts. I do not support the overall goal of beehaw, though that is not related to the content of what I posted above. Imo, Beehaw as a curated communities should not try to play both sides and handle the situation poorly - which does confuse the overall communities here. If they choose to go walled garden mode, then they should commit to it.

Regards your first point, and partly why I do not agree with beehaw overall goal, I do not think all of what you listed (and what I heard a lot from beehaw or similar closed communities) are such a problem as people are making it out to be. Reddit itself is terribly vile as all of the contents you listed there already exist on the platform. The reasons why you do not see those on reddit on daily basis are 2 folds. One, the tools on reddit that filter those contents are rather decent - which is something lemmy does not have, yet. And two, those types of contents do get naturally filtered by the internet communities itself - something that happened on reddit many many times.

I don’t disagree with that, because Beehaw is made before the reddit thing happened.

What should have happened is that they made an announcement and a clear goal to either remain closed community, or a time of when they rejoin. Originally, they did say they might rejoin when more mod tools are available, which I can respect. The technical limitation is understandable. The whole argument sprung by communities over defederation is not. From my perspective, it is just a veiled way to excuse trying to build a curated community.

Beehaw was made with the goal of being a curated community originally. So just say it like it is. The whole veiled discussion and excuses made by the loose definition of defederation is stupid and just cause even more drama from involved sites.

I do not disagree that defederation will happen. In fact no one actually even know how federation would look like here at all. It’s all experimental at this point.

In fact, Kbin did defederated from the network once. Unlike beehaw, it was a lot shorter, the purpose was clear and handled quickly, without so much drama. What I am saying is that the situation is handled like crap. All these talks and it just reminds me of the same old reddit mods power struggle than what people are trying to paint federation as.

I do intend to interact with communities that I do want to interact with - just as how I did it on reddit before - once actual community members can move over from reddit without being tangled in this faction wars. You cannot just ignore that a lot of people def do not want to leave reddit to lemmy due to these drama.

This seems like a snipe at me for no reason. I have no interested in “interacting” with the big boys here while they are doing their own things and I do not have the interest nor expertise to fix their issues. My time and interest would better be spend on hobbyist communities that I do like to interact with as I do previously on reddit.

There are just so many words to excuse defederation when it just comes down to technical limitation (not all QoL and moderation tools are ready yet) and power users insisting on curating their precious communities.

Is it really that hard to get that most people are upset because most people just want a high quantity of contents in the most efficient dose possible? This is why Reddit grew to what it is in the first place. Reddit was never really about quality of content. It has always been about user driven contents over curated contents.

The inconvenience of defederation is exactly the strife with the whole situation. Communities splintering is not exactly something new, it happened many times on reddit before. The problem is that this is a really crappy time for defederation: when people are still new to this platforms, when there are many power users and mods still exploring this platform as alternating option, when a lot of QoL tools have not been deployed for an expected experience, when a lot of communities still have not have its helpful members start their contribution, etc.

I suppose these kinds of things ought to happen anyways, as people are still figuring things out. But to regard this as anything but a shit show is blind imo.