Lol okay. You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy. Maybe you should run the next one.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose. You will gain votes from the “purity politics” left from people like you but you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block.
43% of the US population identifies as independent. 27% identifies as Democrat. We don’t have a large enough voting base to win by ourselves without independent/centrist votes. If you abandon them as well, we also lose. Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives. It’s apparently our way or we sink the whole fucking boat with everyone in it. We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all…or vote 3rd party.
You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy.
It’s not, at all. Spotting a repeated mistake IS pretty easy, though
you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block
Prove it. Leftist ideas are liked by the majority of the country when asked without labels, so you’re talking out your ass.
43% of the US population identifies as independent
A lot of those are leftists who don’t associate with the DNC. I would know, I’m a member of a group of them who all get talk about politics. I’m literally a member of the group you’re claiming wouldn’t vote for a more left candidate and I’ll tell you: the majority of us would
Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives
Progressives aren’t the Democratic base, but nice try shifting the blame. Democrats are right-wing and are losing votes because of it. Look at 2024 in CA and see the millions of votes lost because they went centrist
We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all
Either troll or so stupid you’re not worth engaging further on, just holy shit what a stupid reduction
The last 4 Democratic Presidents have ALL been just barely left of center - Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter. The last true progressive we tried to run back was in '72 against Nixon and we lost so incredibly badly that people backed FAR away from trying to run a progressive candidate…go look at the results, they’re pretty insane.
Amazing how one election 50 years ago is enough to conclude that progressives can never win elections ever, but endlessly running conservative Democrats and eating shit just means you need to tack harder right. Not to mention that Obama ran considerably to the left of any other recent democrat candidate and cleaned up.
That’s not what I said. I said that from a strategy standpoint, the support was visibly not there, hence why Democrats have run a primarily centrist/left-leaning platform for decades. It looks much more progressive now thanks to the efforts of people like Bernie and AOC, but it just wasn’t there for the last 50 or so years…and I say that as a progressive. I would love to see a progressive candidate, but the reality and the data essentially stated that platforming a progressive and running a progressive campaign is statistically a losing strategy. You can get your underwear in twist and get as snippy as you want, but your 2-bit hottake doesn’t amount shit compared to the literal decades of experience that these campaign managers have.
There’s historical precedent that supports my argument, from voter sentiment and what brings in large campaign donors, to how to try and game the electoral college. So downvote me all you want, ad hominem attack me all you want. Just because you dont like my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Lastly, Obama was absolutely a centrist. He was barely left of dead center. The most progressive thing about him was that he was black. He expanded our military see drone strikes. He passed ACA which further supported private healthcare, he did nothing for marijuana rescheduling. Hell, there were more deportations under Obama than Trump. There was nothing progressive about that man.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose.
The last time Democrats tried, they won a super majority.
centrist/independent
Notice how you’ve just assumed based on nothing that independents are all “centrists” who don’t vote Democrats because they’re too progressive. Which is wrong.
We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate
People don’t want to vote for people who see “actively genocidal” as “not perfect”
Yeah mate…back in 1932. I’m sure nothing’s really changed since then. And if you think we’ve had a “progressive” candidate since then… I’d LOVE to hear this hot take.
He was barely center-left. None of his actual policies were progressive. He had a more progressive tone in his campaign, but none of his actual campaign promises could be construed as “progressive”. The ACA built on private insurance, not Medicare for all; his military policy built a strong global military posture; hell…he even spoke plenty about “working across the aisle”.
The only progressive thing about Obama was the fact that he was a black candidate. He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Edit to your edit: the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72, but he lost to Nixon in a landslide. You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election. I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
He still ran faaaaaar to the left of any recent Democratic campaign, which still completely torpedoes your assertion that the current Democrats aren’t running right enough to win elections.
He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Oh please, there is not some huge group of independents who voted for Obama because they saw him as a conservative centrist who then went on to not vote for Clinton, Biden, or Harris because they were too left wing. That isn’t a thing.
the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72
Oh so only 50 years then! Still means your claim that progressive candidates can’t win us totally baseless.
You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election.
No, I am just rejecting your baseless assertion that progressive candidates can never win.
I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
Other around: you’re trying to argue that it’s as simple as “independents are in the middle of Democrats and Republicans” and I’m telling it’s a lot more complicated then that
Lol okay. You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy. Maybe you should run the next one.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose. You will gain votes from the “purity politics” left from people like you but you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block.
43% of the US population identifies as independent. 27% identifies as Democrat. We don’t have a large enough voting base to win by ourselves without independent/centrist votes. If you abandon them as well, we also lose. Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives. It’s apparently our way or we sink the whole fucking boat with everyone in it. We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all…or vote 3rd party.
It’s not, at all. Spotting a repeated mistake IS pretty easy, though
Prove it. Leftist ideas are liked by the majority of the country when asked without labels, so you’re talking out your ass.
A lot of those are leftists who don’t associate with the DNC. I would know, I’m a member of a group of them who all get talk about politics. I’m literally a member of the group you’re claiming wouldn’t vote for a more left candidate and I’ll tell you: the majority of us would
Progressives aren’t the Democratic base, but nice try shifting the blame. Democrats are right-wing and are losing votes because of it. Look at 2024 in CA and see the millions of votes lost because they went centrist
Either troll or so stupid you’re not worth engaging further on, just holy shit what a stupid reduction
The last 4 Democratic Presidents have ALL been just barely left of center - Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter. The last true progressive we tried to run back was in '72 against Nixon and we lost so incredibly badly that people backed FAR away from trying to run a progressive candidate…go look at the results, they’re pretty insane.
Amazing how one election 50 years ago is enough to conclude that progressives can never win elections ever, but endlessly running conservative Democrats and eating shit just means you need to tack harder right. Not to mention that Obama ran considerably to the left of any other recent democrat candidate and cleaned up.
That’s not what I said. I said that from a strategy standpoint, the support was visibly not there, hence why Democrats have run a primarily centrist/left-leaning platform for decades. It looks much more progressive now thanks to the efforts of people like Bernie and AOC, but it just wasn’t there for the last 50 or so years…and I say that as a progressive. I would love to see a progressive candidate, but the reality and the data essentially stated that platforming a progressive and running a progressive campaign is statistically a losing strategy. You can get your underwear in twist and get as snippy as you want, but your 2-bit hottake doesn’t amount shit compared to the literal decades of experience that these campaign managers have.
There’s historical precedent that supports my argument, from voter sentiment and what brings in large campaign donors, to how to try and game the electoral college. So downvote me all you want, ad hominem attack me all you want. Just because you dont like my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Lastly, Obama was absolutely a centrist. He was barely left of dead center. The most progressive thing about him was that he was black. He expanded our military see drone strikes. He passed ACA which further supported private healthcare, he did nothing for marijuana rescheduling. Hell, there were more deportations under Obama than Trump. There was nothing progressive about that man.
The last time Democrats tried, they won a super majority.
Notice how you’ve just assumed based on nothing that independents are all “centrists” who don’t vote Democrats because they’re too progressive. Which is wrong.
People don’t want to vote for people who see “actively genocidal” as “not perfect”
Yeah mate…back in 1932. I’m sure nothing’s really changed since then. And if you think we’ve had a “progressive” candidate since then… I’d LOVE to hear this hot take.
I was talking about Obama, who ran a progressive campaign.
Also, if you believe that Democrats haven’t run a progressive campaign in 90 years, you have ZERO leg to stand on saying it would lose.
He was barely center-left. None of his actual policies were progressive. He had a more progressive tone in his campaign, but none of his actual campaign promises could be construed as “progressive”. The ACA built on private insurance, not Medicare for all; his military policy built a strong global military posture; hell…he even spoke plenty about “working across the aisle”.
The only progressive thing about Obama was the fact that he was a black candidate. He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Edit to your edit: the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72, but he lost to Nixon in a landslide. You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election. I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
He still ran faaaaaar to the left of any recent Democratic campaign, which still completely torpedoes your assertion that the current Democrats aren’t running right enough to win elections.
Oh please, there is not some huge group of independents who voted for Obama because they saw him as a conservative centrist who then went on to not vote for Clinton, Biden, or Harris because they were too left wing. That isn’t a thing.
Oh so only 50 years then! Still means your claim that progressive candidates can’t win us totally baseless.
No, I am just rejecting your baseless assertion that progressive candidates can never win.
Other around: you’re trying to argue that it’s as simple as “independents are in the middle of Democrats and Republicans” and I’m telling it’s a lot more complicated then that