• Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Do they hope to pick up all other 3rd party apps users? Not that it matters much to me since my reason for quitting reddit is the way they mistreated the entire userbase (I don’t use apps), but I’m curious nonetheless to see how this ends.

  • nameless_prole@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I don’t really understand reddit’s angle here… Why would they provide zero cost API access to an app, as long as the developer of the app isn’t making a profit? Are they trying to act like that was the issue they had with these third party apps? That they e profitable?

    How does it make sense for them to allow an app for that reason?

    • Anomander@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      That’s what Narwhal dev had publicly offered previously, there’s no firm confirmation that’s actually the deal and I’d be a little surprised if it was.

      I think Reddit chose to give them a sweetheart deal because they’re the worst competitor app, the dev had been least publicly critical of the API changes, and Reddit wants the PR value of an example case “proving” their API changes weren’t maliciously anticompetitive towards third-party apps.

      The fact that Narwhal has struck a deal now allows Reddit Inc to say “see! we do work with third party apps; it’s not that we’re bad, it’s that RIF and Apollo are big meanies who won’t cooperate!”

      • keeb420@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        If “cooperating” means getting bent over and shafted with a footlong dildo covered in rusty razor blades than I don’t blame them one bit.

        • Anomander@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Indirectly, that was some of my point.

          It looks strongly like one of two things has happened - either Narwhal took the knee and has accepted absolutely abysmal terms in order to remain in existence, or Reddit has offered them a better deal in private to keep them afloat - solely to use them as a PR example case.

          The only thing that seems unlikely is that they’re working under strict terms of the published agreement, otherwise IMO costs to users are functionally unfeasible.

      • niktemadur@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Which raises another question: are analysts and investors so stupid that they can’t read between the lines? Because this looks like using a bucket to douse a five-alarm fire.

    • Kbin_space_program@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      They’ve been trying this entire time to reframe the argument into the app developers being the bad apples.

      By getting one scab to exist, they can work at that angle now better than they could before.

    • ngmi@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Sounds like breaking a lot of laws by limiting api access to specific companies

      • Cloudless@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        It is not a public service. Deals are made between companies all the time, so I don’t see how this would break the law.

  • kimagure@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    So it’s basically you pay to Reddit yet without the perks of Reddit premium. You pay just to use 3rd party app.

    • DpwnShift@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Don’t forget that the API won’t provide access to any NSFW sub. (There’s a lot of reasons a sub might have NSFW posts besides just pr0n.) So Reddit literally expects people to pay for less content. It’s absolutely bananas…

        • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Lol it’s funny people keep bringing up the NSFW as if everyone is going to be outraged. I mean I don’t care if people like to watch gangbangs or whatever but I have absolutely no interest in porn. I’d rather look at some cuddling, hand holding, tender smooches and romance. But I do not like having to turn off NSFW and miss out on all the non sexual NSFW content on here.

          • Confuzzeled@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You’re right the porn is the least of it, how many askreddit threads are nsfw and many many more subreddits that have nsfw language. It’ll be a very hollow experience using reddit on a third party app after the 1st.

          • embecile@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I read something that explained that banning NSFW from the API would make it more difficult for mod tools meant to identify situations where someone who posted a lot of hardcore porn tried to post in a sub aimed at young or vulnerable users (I think r/teenagers was the example given). So it isn’t just about being able to access porn, but also about being able to identify potential problem users for certain subs.

        • SoPunny@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Lots of advice/relationship/drama subs have nsfw content. Think JNMIL is permanently nsfw now.

  • zcd@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I noticed Narwhal was being enshitified last month with obtrusive ads, so long fucker

  • Oshka@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Jesus…why would he even bother adjusting the business model if part of the agreement was he makes zero money??..Am I missing understanding something? Seems like a waste of time on developers part…

    • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      IIUC Narwhal 1 will be free but will drop its ads in return for being free (so a non-commercial app). Rather than a special deal I figure that this passed under the same rule that other noncommercial apps like RedReader did.

      Narwhal 2 will charge a subscription to cover the API fees, including top up fees if you go over some limit, suggesting this is the normal reddit API pricing. I think developers of like Apollo couldn’t do this because they had preexisting annual subscriptions. I guess Narwhal didn’t have anything like this.

      • Oshka@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I guess I thought the whole issue was even if the app was not commercial, in order for users to actually make it work they need to use reddit API and that’s unsustainable since it cost money regardless. Maybe that’s where my misunderstanding stems from. I’m not the most tech savvy with all this API stuff.

        • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Your understanding is correct, but reddit did announce exemptions for noncommercial apps and accessibility apps (without defining the latter term). IIUC reddit said something along the lines of “we shouldn’t be lunprofitable while third party apps are profitable.”

          • wjrii@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            IIUC reddit said something along the lines of “we shouldn’t be unprofitable while third party apps are profitable.”

            They did, ignoring the fact that the scales are completely different and the fact that the 3PAs helped mods and engaged, contributing members provide content and services that Reddit didn’t have to pay for, thereby mitigating or maybe even completely counterbalancing the costs of supporting them.

            • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Agreed. I just tried to state what they said - in my defense i never said that what they said made sense because as you just said it doesn’t really make sense.

          • NotAPenguin@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I don’t think they said noncommercial and accessibility apps but rather noncommercial accessibility apps

            • abff08f4813c@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Ah possible. Maybe Narwhal 1 was still able to get an exemption under this rule (because reddit never defined what an accessibility app was) and is just keeping mum about or downplaying the accessibility angle.

          • hoodatninja@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            without defining the latter term

            Which is why many of us rolled our eyes and ignored the statement as usual lol

  • Haan@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Marketing dollars! Only reason they did this is so they can say “hey look! We still have 3rd party apps!”

  • RandomStickman@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Once upon a time (a little over a month ago? Pretty wild to think about) I might have paid to continue to use my 3rd party app of choice (Relay). But now? Not a chance.

    • siuvhne@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      realizing I hadn’t yet, I actually paid for the third party app that I was using - RIF -after I found out that they were closing the doors.

  • Eggyhead@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Hold up. So he’s allowed to keep a 3rd party app if only Reddit can profit from it? That can’t be right. Why would anyone agree to do that.

  • JanoRis@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I don’t plan on going back since I just can’t condone how Reddit management handled the whole issue, but there is one thing I wonder why it is not a possible solution for 3rd party apps:

    Wouldn’t it be possible to ask the userbase to just get the API key themselves?
    If every user of a 3rd party app has their own API key, they won’t have to pay anything won’t they, since it will be hard to reach the free tier limit.
    And even if a user does reach the limit he can get a couple thousands API calls for just a small number of cents.

    Reddit will be still getting the same number of API calls, but it won’t be the responsibility of the 3rdparty dev but on each user if the limit is reached

    • atocci@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      That would be against the terms of service for using the API and a surefire way to get your app removed from whatever storefront you have it listed on as soon as Reddit complains.

      • gnoop@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Those on Android can sideload. It would definitely kill the quantity of users, though.

    • JoeCoT@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      API access has an approval process, and reddit has already been clear they will not just allow users to get their own API keys.