It’s likely the steam machine will be repairable, what makes you think otherwise?
Not everyone loves to build a computer, look for compatible parts, compare 100 prices, choose a distro, spend 2 or 3 days troubleshooting unexpected things anyhow… The appeal of this box for people who want a “decent” hardware with steam/Linux on an open machine (free to install whatever you want afterwards) plug and play ready out of the box looks pretty damn big too me, if the price will be low enough. Not everyone is a tinkerer to the same degree or has enough time for it. This will for sure open Linux to a broader audience, that are interested but scared or short on skill/knowledge/time. Plus you get support, the real kind, not only random people on forums. Maybe it’s not for you, but to me the appeal is enormous. If it’s priced sharp enough I’ll probably get one and make it my “smart” TV device.
It has a custom soc that is most likely soldered and most of the components (except maybe storage and ram) are custom as well. If you need to repair it, you depend on steam still providing the parts. I doubt the parts will be available in retail stores, so that’s another inconvenience. Upgrading (the cpu/gpu, etc) will also probably be impossible.
Also, building a pc is a lot simpler than you make it out to be. Not sure what you mean about that “support” bit either. People have always been fixing their computers getting help online. Either from forums or manufacturers.
To top it off, the “benefits” you’re mentioning are literally the same as if you bought a prebuilt pc.
Not a fan of prebuilts tbh. As far as linux goes, Bazzite is free so create a bootable thumbdrive with rufus and literally just follow the installation prompts. If you can’t even do that, then maybe you ahould learn how to.
Why would you want “steam” installed? It’s just a normal program, you can install it yourself in 5 minutes.
That really doesn’t make much sense. Valve creates steamos, donates time (employee time, i mean) and money to open source projects, they improve proton a lot and what you’re interested in is having steam installed? Ok…
The steam deck seems very repairable, I would be surprised if this machine won’t be. They know their core customers and how to please them.
It’s simple for you and people you know to build a pc and install an operating system. I think that kind of people % of total population is way smaller than you think it is.
And prebuilt PCs 95+ % of the time come with windows and all crap it brings along pre-installed. Really, installing Linux seems child play for you and me but for the vast majority of the population it’s still a big big scary thing to try. On top, I expect for the hardware you get it will be very well priced, just like steamdeck was, because the real revenue is customer bonding and steam purchases.
It’s not repairable in the sense that it doesn’t use standard parts so whether you can get replacements or not depends on where you are, geographically. If it used a standard atx psu for example, you’d be able to buy that anywhere. Same thing for the cpu, if it used a standard cpu+gpu instead of a custom apu, you’d be able to replace just that if it broke, instead of the whole motherboard. Or even upgrade it if you wanted to.
Even motherboards themselves have different features. You might need 2.5g ethernet whereas someone else is fine with gigabit but wants better wifi. In my case, I always buy boards with spdi/f to use them with a dac. You lose that flexibility with a device like this.
Regarding the OS in prebuilts, it’s very common to have the option to order them without Windows. If you don’t know how to install Bazzite, just pay a technician to do it. It will still be cheaper than Windows. That’s not an excuse or impediment.
Not trying to attack you or anything because you did say that you don’t see the appeal for your own case, but that’s because this product isn’t for you. If you see building a PC and putting it in your living room as an alternative, it’s not meant for you. This is for everyone else who doesn’t see those things as easy. Being someone who has been building/upgrading my own gaming PCs since I was a preteen, I understand how simple it seems to you. But not everyone has that perspective. What seems like simple step-by-step instructions to you is actually really complicated. Part compatiblity alone is difficult, and even the best sources of info can get it wrong, and that’s really demoralizing for someone who doesn’t even know what RAM is. Step-by-step guides seem easy, but there are many predatory ones out there, which suggest using a free trial of paid software to do the things FOSS software can do. You and I know how to avoid it, but if someone doesn’t even understand the concept of an .iso file, how would they know that better alternatives exist? Also, an extremely common case when following tutorials online is that they are out of date, or an unexpected error happens when following them. You and I can quickly RCA these issues and get back on track, but when you don’t even understand what the steps you are taking are actually doing, these minor hiccups leave you dead in the water.
What you are actually suggesting here is people do like, a year of introductory computer classes. It doesn’t feel like that to you because you’ve been figuring all this crap out as you go along, but having walked people through the most basic of IT problems, you are overestimating what a normal person finds intimidating when dealing with a computer.
No, you don’t need to do an introductory year. You also don’t really need to know what’s compatible with what. Tools like pcpartpicker already do that.
Finally, you’re comparing building a pc with buying a prebuilt, which is something people have been able to do since forever. The argument then becomes, why buy a steam machine with custom parts, which will be harder to fix and impossible to upgrade instead of a mini itx prebuilt with standard parts?
You really do, and you not thinking so is telling of how skewed your view of what common knowledge really is. Where does someone start when building a computer if they don’t know what goes into a computer? How do they pick parts if they don’t know what changes will make their computer better or worse? I love PC part picker, but let’s be real, it’s for people who already know what they are looking for. PC part picker makes things so easy for you and I, but drop any tech-illiterate person into PC part picker, and they won’t actually get anywhere. Plus, I’ve had it get the dimensions of a GPU wrong before, and without verifying through a different website, I would have bought a card that didn’t fit in the case I was using. Even the gold standard sources of information make mistakes.
As for the pre-built argument, to someone like my brother who knows nothing about computers, but regularly games on his PS5, the steam machine and a prebuilt are essentially the same. He wouldn’t know how to fix the computer without sending it off to the company, which is how he’d fix the steam machine as well. He also wouldn’t see the PC as something that could be upgraded. If a game wasn’t running well, he certainly wouldn’t know what part would need upgrading in his machine to make his experience better. In that sense, the pre-built is effectly non-upgradable. He might know to adjust the in-game settings, but wouldn’t know what settings to change. On a prebuilt, this would be an issue. On a device that millions of people use, all with the exact same specs, this information is readily available. Think of the steam deck, you could look up “<game name> steam deck settings” and get the best loadout for your exact hardware. Hell, a bunch of modern games have a “Steam Deck” settings loadout built in. With a prebuilt, that’s not possible. And finally, the steam machine is considerably smaller than any mini itx prebuilt I’ve seen on the market. Hell, a mini it’s motherboard couldn’t even fit in the steam machine’s case. To a lot of people, not having a big box in their living room matters. I’ve had a hard time convincing my partner to let me have a PC in a Fractal Design Terra case in the living room, and that’s a case that is small and clean looking.
I don’t agree that it’s that hars to build a pc. Even if it was, saying that adjusting visual settings is complicates is waaay too much. You’d have to be straight up dumb not even be able to use the low/medium/high/extreme presets every game has.
Also saying that since he can’t build it, he can’t upgrade it, is false. Any “pc technician” can do that for him.
The size part is also kinda moot. A Fractal Terra is smaller than a console and it can fit an itx build with most gpus.
Stop normalizing incompetence. We use computers, people should at the bare minimum know how to use them.
Sure, people can use the presets, but on a lower end machine, those aren’t perfect for getting the most out of your specific hardware. What I meant there was that consoles, and by extension the steam deck/steam machine, have the exact setting loadout for that hardware dialed in.
Sure, he could pay someone to upgrade it for him, but at that point it loses a lot of the benefits that come with being able to upgrade in the first place.
The Fractal Terra is actually larger than all modern consoles. The Fractal Terra is 11.4 liters. The PS5 is 7.2 liters. The Xbox series X is 6.9 liters. The steam machine is 3.8 liters, 3x smaller than the Fractal Terra. When it comes to dimensions, the Xbox series X is smaller in all dimensions, and while the PS5 is longer and wider, it’s height is half that of the Fractal Terra. The steam machine is pretty similar in two of the three dimensions, but the depth is less than half that of the Terra. The Fractal Terra is a really nice, small case, but it’s only small for a PC, not a console.
As for normalizing incompetence, I doubt you have as extensive a knowledge as you do for computers for every single thing you interact with every day. Knowing “how to use one” is different from knowing how to build and upgrade one.
You come across as someone who is smart, and yet doesn’t fully understand that half the population is below the 50th percentile. The generalizations you make for yourself and those you regularly interact with cannot be made for everyone.
Sure, people can use the presets, but on a lower end machine, those aren’t perfect for getting the most out of your specific hardware.
If that’s the case then you could play around with individual settings to find something you’re comfortable with. I’ve been doing that since I was 12…
Sure, he could pay someone to upgrade it for him, but at that point it loses a lot of the benefits that come with being able to upgrade in the first place.
What? No. The main benefit is that you don’t need to throw anything away. You can even sell the comonent you’re replacing. Would it be more expensive than learning how to do it yourself? Yeah but it’s still cheaper than buying a new computer. It’s also not as wasteful considering that a broken cpu would mean throwing away the entire motherboard on a Steam Machine, whereas you would simply replace the cpu on a normal computer.
The Fractal Terra is actually larger than all modern consoles. The Fractal Terra is 11.4 liters. The PS5 is 7.2 liters.
Nope. Fractal Terra is 10.4 liters and the base ps5 is also 10.4 liters. I would even argue that the form factor of the terra is better. The series X is smaller, true but it’s only 6cm smaller in one of the sides of the top and 4cm shorter. I really don’t think that’s that different.
The steam cube is a lot smaller, sure. It’s also, like I already said multiple times, completely custom and impossible to upgrade. Not worth it imo. We also haven’t discussed the hardware. It comes with 8gb of soldered memory for the gpu. You can see here that that was not enough vram (even at 1080p) for some games over a year ago.
Knowing “how to use one” is different from knowing how to build and upgrade one.
Which is precisely why I specifically referred to people knowing how to use it, not build or upgrade it.
In my case I just can’t see the appeal. If you want a small desktop computer, just build an itx machine that can be fixed and upgraded.
It’s likely the steam machine will be repairable, what makes you think otherwise?
Not everyone loves to build a computer, look for compatible parts, compare 100 prices, choose a distro, spend 2 or 3 days troubleshooting unexpected things anyhow… The appeal of this box for people who want a “decent” hardware with steam/Linux on an open machine (free to install whatever you want afterwards) plug and play ready out of the box looks pretty damn big too me, if the price will be low enough. Not everyone is a tinkerer to the same degree or has enough time for it. This will for sure open Linux to a broader audience, that are interested but scared or short on skill/knowledge/time. Plus you get support, the real kind, not only random people on forums. Maybe it’s not for you, but to me the appeal is enormous. If it’s priced sharp enough I’ll probably get one and make it my “smart” TV device.
It has a custom soc that is most likely soldered and most of the components (except maybe storage and ram) are custom as well. If you need to repair it, you depend on steam still providing the parts. I doubt the parts will be available in retail stores, so that’s another inconvenience. Upgrading (the cpu/gpu, etc) will also probably be impossible.
Also, building a pc is a lot simpler than you make it out to be. Not sure what you mean about that “support” bit either. People have always been fixing their computers getting help online. Either from forums or manufacturers.
To top it off, the “benefits” you’re mentioning are literally the same as if you bought a prebuilt pc.
Do you have a favorite pre-built PC that ships with Linux and Steam installed?
That’s something I want pretty badly, but haven’t run across a good lead for.
With a good recommendation, I might not wait for (the Steam Machine in) January!
System 76 sells pre-builts
Not a fan of prebuilts tbh. As far as linux goes, Bazzite is free so create a bootable thumbdrive with rufus and literally just follow the installation prompts. If you can’t even do that, then maybe you ahould learn how to.
Why would you want “steam” installed? It’s just a normal program, you can install it yourself in 5 minutes.
Because having Steam pre-installed signals that the hardware producer planned for gaming and has done some basic testing for gaming.
The new “Steam Machine Verified” badge is the most exciting part of all this.
That really doesn’t make much sense. Valve creates steamos, donates time (employee time, i mean) and money to open source projects, they improve proton a lot and what you’re interested in is having steam installed? Ok…
The steam deck seems very repairable, I would be surprised if this machine won’t be. They know their core customers and how to please them.
It’s simple for you and people you know to build a pc and install an operating system. I think that kind of people % of total population is way smaller than you think it is.
And prebuilt PCs 95+ % of the time come with windows and all crap it brings along pre-installed. Really, installing Linux seems child play for you and me but for the vast majority of the population it’s still a big big scary thing to try. On top, I expect for the hardware you get it will be very well priced, just like steamdeck was, because the real revenue is customer bonding and steam purchases.
It’s not repairable in the sense that it doesn’t use standard parts so whether you can get replacements or not depends on where you are, geographically. If it used a standard atx psu for example, you’d be able to buy that anywhere. Same thing for the cpu, if it used a standard cpu+gpu instead of a custom apu, you’d be able to replace just that if it broke, instead of the whole motherboard. Or even upgrade it if you wanted to.
Even motherboards themselves have different features. You might need 2.5g ethernet whereas someone else is fine with gigabit but wants better wifi. In my case, I always buy boards with spdi/f to use them with a dac. You lose that flexibility with a device like this.
Regarding the OS in prebuilts, it’s very common to have the option to order them without Windows. If you don’t know how to install Bazzite, just pay a technician to do it. It will still be cheaper than Windows. That’s not an excuse or impediment.
Not trying to attack you or anything because you did say that you don’t see the appeal for your own case, but that’s because this product isn’t for you. If you see building a PC and putting it in your living room as an alternative, it’s not meant for you. This is for everyone else who doesn’t see those things as easy. Being someone who has been building/upgrading my own gaming PCs since I was a preteen, I understand how simple it seems to you. But not everyone has that perspective. What seems like simple step-by-step instructions to you is actually really complicated. Part compatiblity alone is difficult, and even the best sources of info can get it wrong, and that’s really demoralizing for someone who doesn’t even know what RAM is. Step-by-step guides seem easy, but there are many predatory ones out there, which suggest using a free trial of paid software to do the things FOSS software can do. You and I know how to avoid it, but if someone doesn’t even understand the concept of an .iso file, how would they know that better alternatives exist? Also, an extremely common case when following tutorials online is that they are out of date, or an unexpected error happens when following them. You and I can quickly RCA these issues and get back on track, but when you don’t even understand what the steps you are taking are actually doing, these minor hiccups leave you dead in the water.
What you are actually suggesting here is people do like, a year of introductory computer classes. It doesn’t feel like that to you because you’ve been figuring all this crap out as you go along, but having walked people through the most basic of IT problems, you are overestimating what a normal person finds intimidating when dealing with a computer.
No, you don’t need to do an introductory year. You also don’t really need to know what’s compatible with what. Tools like pcpartpicker already do that.
Finally, you’re comparing building a pc with buying a prebuilt, which is something people have been able to do since forever. The argument then becomes, why buy a steam machine with custom parts, which will be harder to fix and impossible to upgrade instead of a mini itx prebuilt with standard parts?
You really do, and you not thinking so is telling of how skewed your view of what common knowledge really is. Where does someone start when building a computer if they don’t know what goes into a computer? How do they pick parts if they don’t know what changes will make their computer better or worse? I love PC part picker, but let’s be real, it’s for people who already know what they are looking for. PC part picker makes things so easy for you and I, but drop any tech-illiterate person into PC part picker, and they won’t actually get anywhere. Plus, I’ve had it get the dimensions of a GPU wrong before, and without verifying through a different website, I would have bought a card that didn’t fit in the case I was using. Even the gold standard sources of information make mistakes.
As for the pre-built argument, to someone like my brother who knows nothing about computers, but regularly games on his PS5, the steam machine and a prebuilt are essentially the same. He wouldn’t know how to fix the computer without sending it off to the company, which is how he’d fix the steam machine as well. He also wouldn’t see the PC as something that could be upgraded. If a game wasn’t running well, he certainly wouldn’t know what part would need upgrading in his machine to make his experience better. In that sense, the pre-built is effectly non-upgradable. He might know to adjust the in-game settings, but wouldn’t know what settings to change. On a prebuilt, this would be an issue. On a device that millions of people use, all with the exact same specs, this information is readily available. Think of the steam deck, you could look up “<game name> steam deck settings” and get the best loadout for your exact hardware. Hell, a bunch of modern games have a “Steam Deck” settings loadout built in. With a prebuilt, that’s not possible. And finally, the steam machine is considerably smaller than any mini itx prebuilt I’ve seen on the market. Hell, a mini it’s motherboard couldn’t even fit in the steam machine’s case. To a lot of people, not having a big box in their living room matters. I’ve had a hard time convincing my partner to let me have a PC in a Fractal Design Terra case in the living room, and that’s a case that is small and clean looking.
I don’t agree that it’s that hars to build a pc. Even if it was, saying that adjusting visual settings is complicates is waaay too much. You’d have to be straight up dumb not even be able to use the low/medium/high/extreme presets every game has.
Also saying that since he can’t build it, he can’t upgrade it, is false. Any “pc technician” can do that for him.
The size part is also kinda moot. A Fractal Terra is smaller than a console and it can fit an itx build with most gpus.
Stop normalizing incompetence. We use computers, people should at the bare minimum know how to use them.
Sure, people can use the presets, but on a lower end machine, those aren’t perfect for getting the most out of your specific hardware. What I meant there was that consoles, and by extension the steam deck/steam machine, have the exact setting loadout for that hardware dialed in.
Sure, he could pay someone to upgrade it for him, but at that point it loses a lot of the benefits that come with being able to upgrade in the first place.
The Fractal Terra is actually larger than all modern consoles. The Fractal Terra is 11.4 liters. The PS5 is 7.2 liters. The Xbox series X is 6.9 liters. The steam machine is 3.8 liters, 3x smaller than the Fractal Terra. When it comes to dimensions, the Xbox series X is smaller in all dimensions, and while the PS5 is longer and wider, it’s height is half that of the Fractal Terra. The steam machine is pretty similar in two of the three dimensions, but the depth is less than half that of the Terra. The Fractal Terra is a really nice, small case, but it’s only small for a PC, not a console.
As for normalizing incompetence, I doubt you have as extensive a knowledge as you do for computers for every single thing you interact with every day. Knowing “how to use one” is different from knowing how to build and upgrade one.
You come across as someone who is smart, and yet doesn’t fully understand that half the population is below the 50th percentile. The generalizations you make for yourself and those you regularly interact with cannot be made for everyone.
If that’s the case then you could play around with individual settings to find something you’re comfortable with. I’ve been doing that since I was 12…
What? No. The main benefit is that you don’t need to throw anything away. You can even sell the comonent you’re replacing. Would it be more expensive than learning how to do it yourself? Yeah but it’s still cheaper than buying a new computer. It’s also not as wasteful considering that a broken cpu would mean throwing away the entire motherboard on a Steam Machine, whereas you would simply replace the cpu on a normal computer.
Nope. Fractal Terra is 10.4 liters and the base ps5 is also 10.4 liters. I would even argue that the form factor of the terra is better. The series X is smaller, true but it’s only 6cm smaller in one of the sides of the top and 4cm shorter. I really don’t think that’s that different.
The steam cube is a lot smaller, sure. It’s also, like I already said multiple times, completely custom and impossible to upgrade. Not worth it imo. We also haven’t discussed the hardware. It comes with 8gb of soldered memory for the gpu. You can see here that that was not enough vram (even at 1080p) for some games over a year ago.
Which is precisely why I specifically referred to people knowing how to use it, not build or upgrade it.
If the price point is around 500$/€ I think it would be challenging to build a good pc for less than that
That’s wishful thinking. Valve hasn’t even announced a price range.
Maybe, but it would be more or less in line with consoles. I would be surprised if it was much more.