It’s almost like he’s a fully fledged, complex human being and not an avatar of one side of a highly simplified model of political thought.
He’s quite “left-wing” (from a US Overton Window) on most issues. MTG was relatively early speaking out for Palestine. That doesn’t make her a leftist, either
He’s also Jewish, and a prominent politician in a field where Israeli lobbying is extensive, so him speaking out against Israel is a big line for him to cross.
He’s been speaking out against Israel since the 1980s. Not just speaking, but standing up in congress and yelling about it. There was just a little artificial construction where him calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” represented a reason why he was actually pro Israel, which was always a fucking bonkers take on it.
He literally isn’t, though, because being anti-capitalist is the starting point for Socialism. He’s just comfortable with actual Socialism. Which most Americans aren’t thanks to propaganda.
Not to knock the guy. I voted for him the one time I was allowed to. He’s easily one of the best of a bad bunch.
But at best he’s a Social Democrat, which just means he’s Left of most Dems, but given how the Overton window has shifted over the course of his lifetime, post-Reagan that’s not saying much.
Again, not knocking the guy, but he really dropped the ball with Palestine and AIPAC.
Did he switch back to being an Independent? I thought I saw that a while ago.
Dude watch some of the videos where back in the 80s he was going to Nicaragua and Cuba and coming back and talking on TV about their socialist system and how much better it was than the US system. Search for “bernie sanders 1985” or “bernie sanders 1986” on YouTube, there are a bunch. He is a socialist. This whole “left of MOST Dems” thing is incredibly disingenuous.
Switch “back” to being an independent? He’s always been an independent. He ran in the Democratic primary one time, and almost won. That’s it. He’s an independent. You’re trying very hard to paint him into this Democratic-party corner, why?
He “really dropped the ball with Palestine” how? By getting on the Senate floor and yelling about military aid and showing pictures of starving children, repeatedly fighting for bills which would remove Israel’s funding and haranguing everyone to vote for them? That’s “dropped the ball”? How did he drop the ball?
Yeah but he was a HUGE VOICE for saying “Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism” a few years back, which did A LOT towards others being able to be heard when calling it a Genocide.
It seems kind of tame by today’s standards. I think that has more to do with the fact that he’s super-Jewish, he was completely comfortable with talking about socialism and Cuba and things in a way that was so far off the left side of the map at the time that it was out of the building. But by the standards of that time it was absolutely insane. This was years before the Rodney King jury said “not guilty,” this was back when we were doing our own Gaza-lite operations in Central America, it was a time when America could do no wrong and anyone who didn’t like us was a terrorist. He actually talks about that in one other interview which I think I posted in another comment, how he met with the Sandinistas and how the media in the US made it totally impossible for them to get any message that was at all friendly to them to anybody in the US.
More recently, here’s a video of him yelling (for the however-manyth time) recently on the Senate floor about what a fucking horror we are enabling in Gaza, showing pictures. “This is an effort to destroy a people.”
You have to remember that Sanders grew up in Brooklyn in the 40s/50s. He would have encountered holocaust survivors on a daily basis. For guys like that, Israel represented a safeguard against the possible extermination of their people. The fact he’s gone from being broadly supportive if Israel (though being pretty critical of the Netanyahu government) to admitting that this is a genocide shows pretty huge growth.
It’s certainly his biggest weakness and blindspot. He’s Jewish and has always been a liberal zionist. This isn’t to excuse the bad position, but the genocide really puts it into sharp contrast.
And I haven’t even addressed the “liberal” claim, which is absolutely laughable. Sanders has been a socialist since the 70’s. I understand that he looks further left from a US perspective than a global one, but the only people who would call him a “liberal” are the far-right US idiots who don’t know what that word means.
I very specifically mean he is a “liberal zionist” as a complete thought. Obviously being Jewish and a Zionist are different concepts, but there’s obviously overlap. He does want to continue the ethnostate as a way to protect jews after the holocaust, just less violently with more civil rights.
In general I agree he is a socialist with some liberal tendencies likely as an outcome of being a US politician.
Fuck me…and they said that this guy is a huge leftist.
It’s almost like he’s a fully fledged, complex human being and not an avatar of one side of a highly simplified model of political thought.
He’s quite “left-wing” (from a US Overton Window) on most issues. MTG was relatively early speaking out for Palestine. That doesn’t make her a leftist, either
He’s also Jewish, and a prominent politician in a field where Israeli lobbying is extensive, so him speaking out against Israel is a big line for him to cross.
He’s been speaking out against Israel since the 1980s. Not just speaking, but standing up in congress and yelling about it. There was just a little artificial construction where him calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” represented a reason why he was actually pro Israel, which was always a fucking bonkers take on it.
Hes basically the most left person in US government
Doesn’t make him a huge leftist though.
In the senate*
Rashida Tlaib has been calling out israels bullshit since day one, and is left of Bernie on a couple other issues like abolishing ice.
True good call
The most Left in the current Congress is still Right wing.
Bernie is still a capitalist.
He is literally a socialist.
Edit: Here he is in 1985: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTKpMh5jQI
He literally isn’t, though, because being anti-capitalist is the starting point for Socialism. He’s just comfortable with actual Socialism. Which most Americans aren’t thanks to propaganda.
Not to knock the guy. I voted for him the one time I was allowed to. He’s easily one of the best of a bad bunch.
But at best he’s a Social Democrat, which just means he’s Left of most Dems, but given how the Overton window has shifted over the course of his lifetime, post-Reagan that’s not saying much.
Again, not knocking the guy, but he really dropped the ball with Palestine and AIPAC.
Did he switch back to being an Independent? I thought I saw that a while ago.
Anyway, good talk. Thanks.
Dude watch some of the videos where back in the 80s he was going to Nicaragua and Cuba and coming back and talking on TV about their socialist system and how much better it was than the US system. Search for “bernie sanders 1985” or “bernie sanders 1986” on YouTube, there are a bunch. He is a socialist. This whole “left of MOST Dems” thing is incredibly disingenuous.
Switch “back” to being an independent? He’s always been an independent. He ran in the Democratic primary one time, and almost won. That’s it. He’s an independent. You’re trying very hard to paint him into this Democratic-party corner, why?
He “really dropped the ball with Palestine” how? By getting on the Senate floor and yelling about military aid and showing pictures of starving children, repeatedly fighting for bills which would remove Israel’s funding and haranguing everyone to vote for them? That’s “dropped the ball”? How did he drop the ball?
Yeah but he was a HUGE VOICE for saying “Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism” a few years back, which did A LOT towards others being able to be heard when calling it a Genocide.
Here he is in 1988:
https://www.alternet.org/2015/07/1988-bernie-sanders-condemned-israeli-attacks-palestinians-reprehensible
It seems kind of tame by today’s standards. I think that has more to do with the fact that he’s super-Jewish, he was completely comfortable with talking about socialism and Cuba and things in a way that was so far off the left side of the map at the time that it was out of the building. But by the standards of that time it was absolutely insane. This was years before the Rodney King jury said “not guilty,” this was back when we were doing our own Gaza-lite operations in Central America, it was a time when America could do no wrong and anyone who didn’t like us was a terrorist. He actually talks about that in one other interview which I think I posted in another comment, how he met with the Sandinistas and how the media in the US made it totally impossible for them to get any message that was at all friendly to them to anybody in the US.
More recently, here’s a video of him yelling (for the however-manyth time) recently on the Senate floor about what a fucking horror we are enabling in Gaza, showing pictures. “This is an effort to destroy a people.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLM_aD1cwxI
You have to remember that Sanders grew up in Brooklyn in the 40s/50s. He would have encountered holocaust survivors on a daily basis. For guys like that, Israel represented a safeguard against the possible extermination of their people. The fact he’s gone from being broadly supportive if Israel (though being pretty critical of the Netanyahu government) to admitting that this is a genocide shows pretty huge growth.
It’s certainly his biggest weakness and blindspot. He’s Jewish and has always been a liberal zionist. This isn’t to excuse the bad position, but the genocide really puts it into sharp contrast.
A quick search will reveal that Sanders has been critical of Israel’s actions in Palestine since at least 2014 but okay.
You can be a critic of Israel and still be a zionist. That’s kind of exactly what a liberal zionist is.
You can also be Jewish without being Zionist.
And I haven’t even addressed the “liberal” claim, which is absolutely laughable. Sanders has been a socialist since the 70’s. I understand that he looks further left from a US perspective than a global one, but the only people who would call him a “liberal” are the far-right US idiots who don’t know what that word means.
I very specifically mean he is a “liberal zionist” as a complete thought. Obviously being Jewish and a Zionist are different concepts, but there’s obviously overlap. He does want to continue the ethnostate as a way to protect jews after the holocaust, just less violently with more civil rights.
In general I agree he is a socialist with some liberal tendencies likely as an outcome of being a US politician.