VW was never comparable to Toyota. The top has always been the Japanese brands, sometimes with caveats about certain transmissions (e.g. Mazda and Mitsubishi CVTs).
German cars are fine, but parts are generally hard to get or are expensive. Many shops won’t touch them, so you need to find a European imports shop.
Here’s some data from 2024, VW is fourth last, ahead of Land Rover, Audi, and Chrystler. Somehow they’re behind Luncoln…
Hyundai and Kia aren’t at the top, but they’re reasonably good and their price and warranty make up for the issues they have.
That schematic is basically worthless, first it’s “per car”, with no mention of average age or mileage.
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
But Mercedes also on average drive longer than most other cars, because people who drive a lot tend to prefer Mercedes more.
VW only ranking a couple places above Chrysler is laughable. There is no way that can be right.
Also Audi ranking below VW is ridiculous. Audi is to VW somewhat what Lexus is to Toyota.
Something is definitely off with that chart.
But I do not deny that Hyundai may have improved enough to be as good or maybe even better than VW, What I questioned was how they could have that reputation already few years after they clearly sucked on quality. Being reasonably good now, is exactly as expected though. Because when they were bad over a decade ago, they were so bad there are probably very few left on the roads. It was not just something that needed to be fixed bad, it was very much also end of life for the vehicle bad.
I skimmed the article to find the methodology behind the numbers, but couldn’t find it.
The study, now in its 35th year,
That indicates my previous point, they don’t account for age, it’s easy to stay “average” if your cars are scrapped after a few years. It also explains the poor position of Mercedes.
Here for instance Volvo has a longer life span on average than Toyota. Toyota are good cars, but they are generally not built to last as long as Audi or Mercedes.
I bet you don’t see as many 30+ year old Toyota as you do Mercedes.
Honda should absolutely be higher too. And literally that study is worthless, there is no reliable common set standard for the results, which is probably why I can’t even find the methodology used described in the article.
The below linked article based on a TÜV study, is based on legally mandatory safety checks performed by an independent third party:
In this way more rigorous and fair study, based on security issues detected at mandatory checks, VW turns out to be #1!
So clearly Toyota is NOT easily better than VW, Audi or Mercedes, which actually all beat Toyota in an actually useful fully transparent study.
It was claimed earlier that price was a factor in the study posted earlier.
In that regard, I can say that Tesla model 3 is hailed as the cheapest to maintain the first 4 years here in Denmark.
Many car reviewers noted that as a plus for Tesla. But the maintenance also suck balls, because after 4 years we have the first mandatory safety check, and 33% of Tesla model 3 fail that test, even with very serious issues like on steering and brakes. No other brand fails on steering after 4 years!!
So clearly basing it on cost is not worth shit. You may save a buck, and then die next time you need to make a double maneuver or brake hard.
Toyota are absolutely good cars, but they are not easily better than VW. They are mostly on par.
That’s actually a good way to measure for similar cars. But still a luxury car is obviously more expensive to repair, and that does not make it unreliable.
I hear what you’re saying, and I don’t know what else they might do for the formula. I just knew from somewhere back in my head that that’s the basic way they do it
Here Tesla is claimed to be the cheapest to maintain, but they also have the worst failure rate of any brand here in Denmark at similar safety checks as in Germany. Although the failure rate is even higher here with 33% which used to be completely unheard of.
So cheap maintenance does not mean high reliability. 😋
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
Most taxi drivers here drive a Toyota Prius, because they’re incredibly reliable and get great fuel economy.
The only people who drive Mercedes here are rich people who like the brand, or people who need a 15 passenger van, because there aren’t many options and it’s better than a Ford or Chevy.
The only people who get BMW and Audi are car enthusiasts and rich people who like the respective brands and are willing to pay for the privilege. The only people who get VW are those who are attracted by the low prices,(can get a Jetta for ~$20k because nobody wants them) and later get screwed on repairs. I almost never see VW here, they have a terrible reputation, which is amazing because everyone loved the old Beetles.
But sure, if you don’t like the stats I showed, provide your own and prove me wrong. Sales figures won’t convince me, repairability stats do.
Yes we’ve seen the beetle in many American movies, and every hippie group with respect for themselves drive a Volkswagen Bus. (according to Hollywood) 😋
Funny, because the Beetle was very reliable and durable here in Europe, both in cold Scandinavian countries, and hot south European countries, and for driving the demanding roads in the alps. And here they were everywhere even more than a decade after production stopped. Very very durable and reliable cars. Also beating way more expensive cars in how old they got on average.
What they were not was well equipped with extras, or fast or powerful or particularly comfortable to drive, and they were also noisy.
But to say they weren’t reliable???
Did USA get some sort of second rate Beetle cars compared to Europe? Here we called it the asphalt bubble. I even have a neighbor who owns a late 70’s beetle today, which still drives absolutely fine! Still with minimal maintenance!
I could understand if you were from Brazil, they had their own VW factory early on, and IDK if quality is the same on those? Maybe USA got VW from Brazil?
It really depends on the year. But generally speaking, even the bad year beetles were fine since parts were available, they just didn’t quite compare to Toyotas.
The thing about the early VWs, like the Beetle, was they couldn’t pass the updated safety standards the US passed in the early '70s: safety glass, reinforced cabin, etc.
Yes, but that doesn’t make the car unreliable.
Also funny story is that car safety is abhorrent in USA today compared to Europe. Especially with American pickup trucks.
USA was absolutely in the front on research on for instance seat belts, but Europe made them mandatory to have and wear first, because in USA it was delayed because they were afraid it would slow down car sales! (AFAIK)
Crash tests were expensive, so I bet that started in USA first too, because American car companies had way more money than in Europe.Still how did the Cybertruck pass? We’ve seen the crash test of that, and it’s an absolute killer car for the driver in a crash. A broken neck is almost guaranteed!
There is no way Cyber Truck would pass car safety standards in Europe!
That may all be true. I think companies are now relying on airbags to do a lot of the legwork in crashes nowadays. but the talk was of reliability not safety
Here the picture is very different, admittedly this is a German study, but by TÜV which is a very reputable company, the biggest company responsible for mandatory car safety checks at periodic intervals.
VW actually beats even Toyota, it’s a couple of years old. But I doubt this has changed much.
This is a very solid stat, for a big country, and the checks are mandatory. So not dependent on brand methodology.
For instance here Tesla is said to be the cheapest car to maintain after purchase and under warranty. But they do a piss poor job, so a whopping third of the cars fail their first mandatory safety check after 4 years. (after that it’s every 2nd year). No other brand is even close to as bad.
VW is among the more expensive, because they have very strict service requirements while under warranty. But I guarantee your chance of passing mandatory safety check is similar to the German, about 2% failure, compared to 33% failure for Tesla. The failures of Tesla are even pretty serious, like steering and brakes! While for other cars Steering is an unheard of failure.
In the study Tesla 3 is also the worst after 2-3 years, with 14.7% of the cars having a security problem!
So being cheapest is absolutely not a sign of being reliable!
There are many ways to make the stats, but the above study is in my opinion much more reliable than what you showed that is based on price, and AFAIK not based on mandatory safety checks.
Unfortunately we don’t have the same amount of data here. So where Hyundai is is unknown, but definitely VW ranks clearly as #1.
As I strongly suspected the study you showed does not give an accurate picture of reliability.
It was just so obvious. The study I show is based on mandatory safety checks, that is equal for all cars.
And in that much more reliable and comparable study VW wins.
VW was never comparable to Toyota. The top has always been the Japanese brands, sometimes with caveats about certain transmissions (e.g. Mazda and Mitsubishi CVTs).
German cars are fine, but parts are generally hard to get or are expensive. Many shops won’t touch them, so you need to find a European imports shop.
Here’s some data from 2024, VW is fourth last, ahead of Land Rover, Audi, and Chrystler. Somehow they’re behind Luncoln…
Hyundai and Kia aren’t at the top, but they’re reasonably good and their price and warranty make up for the issues they have.
Here’s the image:
That schematic is basically worthless, first it’s “per car”, with no mention of average age or mileage.
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
But Mercedes also on average drive longer than most other cars, because people who drive a lot tend to prefer Mercedes more.
VW only ranking a couple places above Chrysler is laughable. There is no way that can be right.
Also Audi ranking below VW is ridiculous. Audi is to VW somewhat what Lexus is to Toyota.
Something is definitely off with that chart.
But I do not deny that Hyundai may have improved enough to be as good or maybe even better than VW, What I questioned was how they could have that reputation already few years after they clearly sucked on quality. Being reasonably good now, is exactly as expected though. Because when they were bad over a decade ago, they were so bad there are probably very few left on the roads. It was not just something that needed to be fixed bad, it was very much also end of life for the vehicle bad.
I skimmed the article to find the methodology behind the numbers, but couldn’t find it.
That indicates my previous point, they don’t account for age, it’s easy to stay “average” if your cars are scrapped after a few years. It also explains the poor position of Mercedes.
Here for instance Volvo has a longer life span on average than Toyota. Toyota are good cars, but they are generally not built to last as long as Audi or Mercedes.
I bet you don’t see as many 30+ year old Toyota as you do Mercedes.
Audi is full of shit. Don’t chalk that pile of garbage up with Mercedes.
But, Toyota is easily better than any German brand. The reason why this just is garbage, is because Honda isn’t on top of the list.
Honda should absolutely be higher too. And literally that study is worthless, there is no reliable common set standard for the results, which is probably why I can’t even find the methodology used described in the article.
The below linked article based on a TÜV study, is based on legally mandatory safety checks performed by an independent third party:
In this way more rigorous and fair study, based on security issues detected at mandatory checks, VW turns out to be #1!
So clearly Toyota is NOT easily better than VW, Audi or Mercedes, which actually all beat Toyota in an actually useful fully transparent study.
It was claimed earlier that price was a factor in the study posted earlier.
In that regard, I can say that Tesla model 3 is hailed as the cheapest to maintain the first 4 years here in Denmark.
Many car reviewers noted that as a plus for Tesla. But the maintenance also suck balls, because after 4 years we have the first mandatory safety check, and 33% of Tesla model 3 fail that test, even with very serious issues like on steering and brakes. No other brand fails on steering after 4 years!!
So clearly basing it on cost is not worth shit. You may save a buck, and then die next time you need to make a double maneuver or brake hard.
Toyota are absolutely good cars, but they are not easily better than VW. They are mostly on par.
Methodology is mileage divided by money spent on repairs
That’s actually a good way to measure for similar cars. But still a luxury car is obviously more expensive to repair, and that does not make it unreliable.
I hear what you’re saying, and I don’t know what else they might do for the formula. I just knew from somewhere back in my head that that’s the basic way they do it
Turns out that when the tests are mandatory safety checks performed by an independent third party, a study shows VW is the clear winner.
https://www.autoparts24.dk/press/stor-undersoegelse-her-er-bilmaerkerne-med-flest-fejl/
Here Tesla is claimed to be the cheapest to maintain, but they also have the worst failure rate of any brand here in Denmark at similar safety checks as in Germany. Although the failure rate is even higher here with 33% which used to be completely unheard of.
So cheap maintenance does not mean high reliability. 😋
That’s not a great method either. Safety is not reliability
Most taxi drivers here drive a Toyota Prius, because they’re incredibly reliable and get great fuel economy.
The only people who drive Mercedes here are rich people who like the brand, or people who need a 15 passenger van, because there aren’t many options and it’s better than a Ford or Chevy.
The only people who get BMW and Audi are car enthusiasts and rich people who like the respective brands and are willing to pay for the privilege. The only people who get VW are those who are attracted by the low prices,(can get a Jetta for ~$20k because nobody wants them) and later get screwed on repairs. I almost never see VW here, they have a terrible reputation, which is amazing because everyone loved the old Beetles.
But sure, if you don’t like the stats I showed, provide your own and prove me wrong. Sales figures won’t convince me, repairability stats do.
Yes we’ve seen the beetle in many American movies, and every hippie group with respect for themselves drive a Volkswagen Bus. (according to Hollywood) 😋
Yup. They weren’t particularly reliable, but they were cheap and parts were easily available.
Funny, because the Beetle was very reliable and durable here in Europe, both in cold Scandinavian countries, and hot south European countries, and for driving the demanding roads in the alps. And here they were everywhere even more than a decade after production stopped. Very very durable and reliable cars. Also beating way more expensive cars in how old they got on average.
What they were not was well equipped with extras, or fast or powerful or particularly comfortable to drive, and they were also noisy.
But to say they weren’t reliable???
Did USA get some sort of second rate Beetle cars compared to Europe? Here we called it the asphalt bubble. I even have a neighbor who owns a late 70’s beetle today, which still drives absolutely fine! Still with minimal maintenance!
I could understand if you were from Brazil, they had their own VW factory early on, and IDK if quality is the same on those? Maybe USA got VW from Brazil?
It really depends on the year. But generally speaking, even the bad year beetles were fine since parts were available, they just didn’t quite compare to Toyotas.
The thing about the early VWs, like the Beetle, was they couldn’t pass the updated safety standards the US passed in the early '70s: safety glass, reinforced cabin, etc.
Yes, but that doesn’t make the car unreliable.
Also funny story is that car safety is abhorrent in USA today compared to Europe. Especially with American pickup trucks.
USA was absolutely in the front on research on for instance seat belts, but Europe made them mandatory to have and wear first, because in USA it was delayed because they were afraid it would slow down car sales! (AFAIK)
Crash tests were expensive, so I bet that started in USA first too, because American car companies had way more money than in Europe.Still how did the Cybertruck pass? We’ve seen the crash test of that, and it’s an absolute killer car for the driver in a crash. A broken neck is almost guaranteed!
There is no way Cyber Truck would pass car safety standards in Europe!
That may all be true. I think companies are now relying on airbags to do a lot of the legwork in crashes nowadays. but the talk was of reliability not safety
https://www.autoparts24.dk/press/stor-undersoegelse-her-er-bilmaerkerne-med-flest-fejl/
VW actually beats even Toyota, it’s a couple of years old. But I doubt this has changed much.
This is a very solid stat, for a big country, and the checks are mandatory. So not dependent on brand methodology.
For instance here Tesla is said to be the cheapest car to maintain after purchase and under warranty. But they do a piss poor job, so a whopping third of the cars fail their first mandatory safety check after 4 years. (after that it’s every 2nd year). No other brand is even close to as bad.
VW is among the more expensive, because they have very strict service requirements while under warranty. But I guarantee your chance of passing mandatory safety check is similar to the German, about 2% failure, compared to 33% failure for Tesla. The failures of Tesla are even pretty serious, like steering and brakes! While for other cars Steering is an unheard of failure.
In the study Tesla 3 is also the worst after 2-3 years, with 14.7% of the cars having a security problem!
So being cheapest is absolutely not a sign of being reliable!
There are many ways to make the stats, but the above study is in my opinion much more reliable than what you showed that is based on price, and AFAIK not based on mandatory safety checks.
Unfortunately we don’t have the same amount of data here. So where Hyundai is is unknown, but definitely VW ranks clearly as #1.
As I strongly suspected the study you showed does not give an accurate picture of reliability.
It was just so obvious. The study I show is based on mandatory safety checks, that is equal for all cars.
And in that much more reliable and comparable study VW wins.