- cross-posted to:
- homeassistant@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- homeassistant@lemmy.world
Google announced the end of support for early Nest Thermostats in a support document earlier this year that largely flew under the radar. As of October 25, first and second generation units released in 2011 and 2012, respectively, will be unpaired and removed from the Google Nest or Google Home app.
Users will no longer be able to control their thermostats remotely via their smartphone, receive notifications, or change settings from a mobile device. End-of-support also disables third-party assistants and other cloud-based features including multi-device Eco mode and Nest Protect connectivity.
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Might as well just go to rent a center instead of buying smart shit.
This is yet another example of businesspeople taking laypeople for a ride. They want a lifeline to your wallets.
If you want fancy IoT that’s quick to set up, look for Matter devices with full offline support
While the Matter spec requires offline control support, it doesn’t require full OEM independence, so you have to look up the individual devices first to check if they’re independent. The main difference being that some OEMs have a lot of extra features outside the Matter spec and other extras which require an account and device registration, etc, so check that the specific features you want works FULLY offline and with 3rd party apps. (I’ve seen Matter controller devices with screens and whatnot which are only configurable with the OEM app)
You can use Home Assistant with its Matter module (open source) as your home controller, together with necessary radios (specifically Thread/Zigbee), and firewall off your devices if you want full control.
And Home Assistant of course also has support for a little bit of everything, like MQTT and custom HTTP commands and more, so you can still control random devices even if they don’t support Matter
Another one bites the dust. https://killedbygoogle.com/
We adopt new tech simply because it exists, not because it is wise to do so.
I dipped my toes into “smart” thermostats with a Wyze. Meh. I don’t really need to set the temp from my phone, or any of the other features, beyond having a simple schedule. I’m seriously considering reverting all the way back to an old-school bimetal strip, dial on the wall type, in private protest of all this crap.
(Don’t get a Wyze. I think they’ve been discontinued anyway. The damn thing loses connection to the wifi three or four times per year, then I need to go through the ENTIRE setup process again, from the very beginning. The wifi antenna is in the closet not three feet away. POS.)
Those things should be zwave or matter or something sensible, not WiFi anyway.
Why? It’s plugged into mains, you don’t need to save 5 watts.
It’s more about having fewer devices on Wi-Fi network IMO.
Until Wi-Fi 5, only one device could talk on Wi-Fi at a time, and even with 5+ the number of devices is limited by a ton of factors, so the more devices you have chattering the slower everything gets as devices wait their turn to speak, have collisions, time out, try to speak again, etc.
You can mitigate this through several different methods, but removing randomly transmitting devices will always be a benefit.
Zwave, zigby, all of those all operate in a different band so it’s better for your internet connection to wireless devices if you can offload stuff into those ranges.
It’s mostly network segregation and decluttering. Those things shouldn’t be on a data network where you then have to filter them all off from the rest. A dedicated network that’s designed for this kind of thing makes much more sense. Also Watts add up. One of them maybe just 5 (which seems a bit high), but when you’ve got sensors, lights, switches, etc., it can end up being significant.
Smart home = control over you. Just don’t do it.
I’m imagining some poor rube who bought fully into the IoT. Like every appliance they own is smart. Then one day they wake up to their entire house no longer functioning because the smart devices can’t connect to whatever services they need. Can’t even work the smart locks on their doors.
Calm down, Francis, the thermostat can still be used and programmed manually. The only features lost are remote settings which we never used once.
Which may suck for people who needed it for vacation homes, or worse, to help their old parents or something like it
I was never able to really make all that stuff work in the first place so I’ve got three “smart” bulbs I bought in maybe 2018 that still (mostly) work, and am generally switching my smart plugs to mechanical timers because I only really use them for grow lights.
I do feel better about being away from home overnight in winter with my weather station (which includes a sensor inside the house) but everything adds nothing to my life at all.
Pretty much happening if support disappears for 2.4GHz wifi. Most of these smart devices require it, and many wifi routers don’t even bother transmitting it unless you specifically activate that option.
Why would you invite this sort of surveillance tech into your home? Google is not your friend. They do not have your best interests at heart.
If surveillance capitalism feeding algorithms had been resisted over the last couple of decades, you might not have Trump now.
These are models that were made before google bought nest.
Here is a rule for you: ‘Anything prefixed with SMART, isn’t.’
It doesn’t matter that google weren’t primarily collecting that data. If they weren’t buying it off nest before they acquired the company, the fact that people were prepared to provide nest with that data is what caused them to acquire nest.
I see the upvotes. Sorry, but you people are so ignorant no wonder you were played so hard.
Oh no, China or Russia will know my house temp I find comfortable.
JFC…you guys have SS troops dragging people from cars and disappearing them and your worried about a thermostat.
They know when you come and go, and what you are doing when you are at home.
It absolutely did bring the surveillance state into the home. You welcomed it. They took that data, added it to all the rest, and created algorithms that engendered engagement that absolutely led to the division you see in your society, and to Trump.
You were ignorant to the intent, and the uses even seemingly benign data can be put to then. Clearly you still are now.
Tech feudalism needs to be made 100% illegal.
Laissez-faire means it’s up to the (stupid) customers to stop buying this crap just because businesspeople told them to.
Unfortunately, customers just aren’t that smart despite how much excess wealth they may have.
The biggest mistake I made in my home was installing $3k in Nest gear, right before they were purchased by Google and the forthcoming Homekit support was abandoned. I cannot wait to get my Ubiquiti camera drops wired so I can stop paying the whopping $20/mo for cloud storage that was $8/mo when I started.
Tl;dr: Fuck Google
Buy something based on open standards and you won’t need to worry about this.
Problem is, 99% of people don’t even know what open standards are.
It’s me. I have no fucking idea and the time to research it makes me quit before I start.
Couple that with the fact that asking questions from ignorance will most likely get two responses, both of which suck.
First, I’d probably get an info dump of terminology I don’t recognize and have to research each one before understanding what’s being said. That would take me back to my original stance of quitting before I started.
Secondly, I’d encounter loads of derisive assholes that scoff at my lack of knowledge.
EDIT: im one of the unlucky bastards targeted by this google fuckery. Obligatory link because fuck google. www.killedbygoogle.com
Someone should publish a guide or something similar.
Simply, check for cloud dependency; can you set it up without the thing’s app, without internet? Does it keep working when the internet is down?
- zigbee
- zwave
- onvif/rtsp
- matter
- if it supports HomeKit, there’s a good chance you can use a bridge to bring it into Homeassistant
Thread and matter can have “unique” implementations but it’s better than proprietary.
I can sum it up for you. You won’t go wrong with anything Zwave. Zigbee is also pretty good and cheaper. Matter is an up and coming standard so less fully formed but also good. Stick to those 3 and you should be good. There are some other niche ones like esp32 or KNX but generally those are more advanced or for specific use cases.
Man, thanks for trying to help. I really mean it, no snark.
This is me right now: “Hey Siri, what are Zigbee, Zwave, Matter, esp32 and KNX?”
Matter is more of a higher level IoT coordination protocol.
Zigbee and Zwave are radio protocols (relatively long range, low energy).
The neat thing here is you can bridge a lot of shit into Matter, and then use almost anything you want to control all the different devices. Everything becomes visible in the same control panel regardless of connection type and manufacturer. Everything becomes available for automation tools too!
If you run the software Home Assistant on a computer at home then it can act as your IoT control server, and giving it radio antennas for Zwave and Zigbee will let it act as a bridge to relay commands to devices that use those protocols (like a ton of small lights and sensors and more).
nah, just keep pumping into those corpos. one day they’ll stop abusing consumers, they “promise”.
Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) and Open Source Hardware (OSH) for the win!!!
See also: Enshitification
Twenty years ago Google was a small, fun startup that was easy to be a fan of. How the mighty have fallen. “Do no evil,” huh? Disgusting.
No, no. It was “Don’t be evil.” A much lower standard, because it allows and encourages occasional evil acts. That meant being slightly less evil than M$.
Oh how kind of them! They force disconnect an appliance but give you a coupon to buy the latest model.
And the newest model is different how? It’s a thermostat after all.
Whole reason I got one was because of the promised savings (never saw any, from the learning, just bullshit offers that allowed the electric company access…).
Guess it’s back to the tried and true mercury thermostat.
or digital, or one that doesnt use mercury.
Yeah if my thermostat starts talking to the internet, its getting buckshot in it.
Think thats lead, not mercury tbh.
(Unless you are not a shit hunter that miss som much you can afford the vismuth)
During winter no less! :/
There is a
class action“mass arbitration” against Google for this: https://www.classaction.org/nest-thermostat-support-arbitrationAdditionally, the Fulu Foundation has a bounty reward out for anyone who is able to get these working with something like Home Assistant.
The pot is currently at $12,856.00 https://bounties.fulu.org/bounties/nest-learning-thermostat-gen-1-2
In the U.S., since doing so would circumvent measures put in place on these devices, publishing how to do this would go against sec. 1201 of the DMCA. This has a risk of a maximum sentence of 3-5 years in a Federal Prison. You can still privately show the Fulu Foundation how it is done, and they will be able to use this information to help their case in their attempt to reform this law.
If you live in the U.S., you can also help by letting your representatives know about this. Here’s an ActionNetwork page that Fulu set up so that you can easily do so: https://actionnetwork.org/letters/right-to-repair-reform-section-1201-of-the-dmca
Allowing these massive corporations to completely subvert our rights and force “arbitration” is fucking criminal. The fact that this is just accepted practice now in the US is pretty fucking infuriating.
The website you linked to says that it’s not a class action suit, but a “mass arbitration” which I’ve never heard of. It also claims that Google has a “no class action” clause in its warranty/user agreement. I don’t see how that’s legal, but whatever. I also wonder if that clause was there at the time of purchase for gen 1 and gen 2 thermostats.
Thanks, I missed that detail. It’s probably because of the “no class action” clause that this is a “mass arbitration”.
Unfortunately that usually means that Google is paying a specific company to decide on the outcome of the case. in this case it looks like American Arbitration Association has a contract with Google.
They’re supposed to be fair for both sides, but it’s been shown that they almost always rule in favor of the company that has pre-selected them.
If anyone is in this situation, they will likely have a much better chance by convincing a judge to allow a different 3rd party to arbitrate the case.
If you live in the U.S., you can also help by letting your representatives know about this. Here’s an ActionNetwork page that Fulu set up so that you can easily do so: https://actionnetwork.org/letters/right-to-repair-reform-section-1201-of-the-dmca
Do you still have a representative government where you live? I have a Republican House rep and trying to get him to do anything even remotely consumer friendly is just masochism.
If you can point out to republican voters how the DMCA fucks them too, you can bury your shitty GOP rep in calls and letters which might make them change.
Maybe.
Until they get a small bribe, and then they won’t give a shit again.
Does $12,856 count? I heard some can be bought for less.
On the other hand, one can understand why Google doesn’t want to continue to pour resources into an ancient platform just to keep it on life support.
Bullshit. “Pour” my ass. Issue a legacy build of the app that controls them and walk away. What horseshit. This is shameful. The only reason it won’t blow up into a huge debacle is that these products targeted wealthy early-adopters in the first place and those folks can afford to upgrade, and most probably already have.
Absolutely fucking correct… You can maintain locks on my so-called smart devices for as long as you maintain your services… You want to pull the plug, you should be forced to open source and expose the tech so that we can keep it working on our own private servers. Proprietary tech is a bullshit excuse as well… The vast majority of these devices are about 10% of in house code riding on 90% of open standards, protocols, and packages. None of them are building the wheel from scratch.
For fucksake most of these devices could easily be implemented on decentralized architecture, if it wasn’t for all the pesky data mining they are doing
Except in the UK you can’t as they don’t sell them. They also ended UK support for their smoke detectors as well.
I switched to opentherm hardware and its now on my HA properly rather than via the cloud.
I did get a good ten years out the Nest hardware, I consider that reasonable for what it cost. Sure old fashioned controllers last longer, but i want the smart features
This isn’t “end of support.”
This is “loss of functionality.”
Totally inexcusable.
No it isn’t. I have one of these, the only loss of function is remote internet settings, which was a stupid feature. It was an escalator, it’s now become stairs. It still works fine as a thermostat, except Communist countries no longer know my house temperature.
Amazing how tech heads focus on minor shit like this with the long list of problems currently facing Fascist America.
Samsung did something similar with one of their tablets when they remotely removed an app that provided an IR remote function - a primary reason for my purchase. Samsung’s support not so politely told me, “Too fucking bad.” when I objected.
There was something I could do about it though. Even though a replacement 3rd party app was less than $5 I haven’t purchased another Samsung consumer product or service in almost a decade.
They were rude to you about it too? Jesus. I’m pleased to say I’ve never bought any Samsung product.
Yeah. And even “loss of functionality” makes it sound passive; as if it just happened by accident. They Intentionally broke a working product.
Heh I guess this is my work self showing through. I’m a software developer and “loss of function” is a very severe term to me :D it’s only surpassed by loss of data, accessibility/legal issue, and security/privacy breach. On the less severe end we have loss of telemetry, degraded function (meaning there’s still a workaround) degraded performance, and finally cosmetic defect.
As most of our tech.
Being someone that yield to my tech stuff as long as possible I really love to live in a world where a company is forced to opensource everything related to a specific product if they opt to stop maintaining it.
This is exactly why I didn’t buy one of these or the Amazon version. I didn’t trust that the devices would work as long as they could function and was correct.
I bought one a bunch of years ago. Maybe 10 years. It worked fine. Did it’s thing. Then for no reason google chooses to kill it. Fool me once.
Then for no reason google chooses to kill it.
That’s kind of their thing.
I wondered how long it would take for that url to pop up. I will never ever rely on any Google product. Except maybe Gmail but I have an alternative plan should that go belly up.
What this list tells me is wait five years before trying any new Google product to see if they’re serious
What the list tells me is that if you do that, they might just kill it in year six anyways.
there is now, they probably want one with AI/spying controls.
I replaced mine with a Sensi. 4 months with Nest, and it decided to confuse hot vs cold signals. Middle of August, it tried to “cool” my house at 3am, instead turning on the furnace, and just kept on going due to the temperature rising. For a week straight, I awoke to 90 degree temps in my house at 3:30 to 4am, and a nice heating bill. I had an hvac friend come over ad tell me in fact, yep, it’s sending signal to furnace, not ac. He checked the wiring, all good. He admitted he knew little of Nests, but said only an idiot would design a thermostat that could allow for a hot/cold signal switch without rewiring.
Heat/cool wiring is rarely correct, many thermostats will have a software option to reverse the wiring.
Sucks that yours got reset for no good reason but it’s probably for the best
I mean, I’m not a trained tech, but it isn’t hard to open up the heat pump and look at wires going in and looking at the thermostat and making sure they match. Although I admit someone ran stranded wire instead of solid core (one day I might try to fish a new wire). For now I just tinned the ends.
There’s nothing wrong with stranded wire, it just means if it’s carrying voltage and a few strands snip or break (leading to greater than 15% voltage loss) it can cause issues. Solid is simply an all or nothing kind of wire. This is more of an issue though if you don’t get every stand under the terminal, otherwise it can be beneficial due to the fact that there is plenty more “wire” to name contact with each other in case a stand breaks in some way along the middle or not at either end. (Bearing being crushed, chewed, or other thing where the wires no longer make any contact with the rest of the wire)
The only thing I use solid core for is fire alarm systems (where all or nothing is crucial), certain audio equipments, and anything nearing high voltage which a thermostat generally doesn’t reach. If it does take 120v+ then wow what why.
Tinned tips though always help for sure, definitely makes it easier to remove/insert the wire.
Been a technician for the last 10 years now an thats my understanding of it atleast.
I have a Sensi and didn’t program it correctly, though my wiring was on point. HVAC guy puzzled over it a few then called me over to show me what the cryptic options meant. Been solid for a few years now.
I’d like to see those options in the app, but if those were included people would fuck them up and blame the company. 🤷🏻
I’ve got one but I bought it from Nest, not Google. TBH I’m surprised it was supported this long, not in a thankful way but because Google is so anti consumer. I didn’t realize the app didn’t work until I saw this post. I’m glad to find out now, not during a heatwave where I’m trying to cool the house when I’m driving home.
I got 11 years out of mine. I had been wanting to upgrade it because it did not accept sensors.
Does it suck that it was still functional? Yup.
I mean they could just unlock the dang things at let some industrious hacker make them useful again. Hell I’d pay like $10 for a firmware that would work with home assistant.
Are API calls to the device signed or whatever? At a minimum one could snoop traffic to rev-eng the API, then recreate it on a lan-only segment
I haven’t snooped on the traffic but at the very least it was encrypted back to google. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it was also signed somehow.  If it was easy, somebody would’ve already cracked it, especially with all the brouhaha about them dropping support.
I would have paid for that as well. I would pay for that for my truck’s infotainment center as well.
Honestly I’d pay as much as $50 to unlock my Microsoft sync to CarPlay on my old explorer.
I think car manufacturers that put closed systems in vehicles and then abandon them should be required to either open source the system or push a final update that adds Android auto/apple car play (or whatever they are called)
Something that might have been a result due to software laws after “stop killing games” initiative
I wish I could upvote this 100 times
